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  16:13:33  11 May 2020
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
 

Message edited by:
Muad'Dib
05/11/2020 19:05:33
Messages: 421
Few little things wrong, no real bugs:

Vanilla & SRP: regarding robber scheme at the entrance of garbage. Bandits says they take everything except a gun. & neutrals in garbage have only guns at first.
So, to be consistent with dialogs, the robber scheme have to take money and all stuff except the outfit and a gun. I think it's hard to do, as GSC only used robber scheme for money.

SRP1.1.2 : if I play bandit, next freedom & finaly neutral in the same game, I can have access two times to the stash in garbage near the electrical & psi anomalies.
First, I do the jobs for bandit against the neutral of fleat market. I receive the stash coordinates by the bandit leader.
Next, I destroyed the flea market ofc, but I can still kill all the bandits at the worker camps, & it liberate neutral slaves. So, they give me the same stash coordinate as a reward and stuff respawn in it again.

Perhaps the unused stash (vanilla game) in escape named esc_treasure_novice_stalker can be used to spawn another reward after liberate the neutral to prevent it.

SRP1.1.3- About freedom base, I goes to DV before talking with Sidorovich.
Ofc, doors of freedom bases are closed as in all bases at first.
I opened fire and killed two squad defending the base, I had some trouble related to noweapon area.
After it, I passed by the roof of irradiated building to enter inside the freedom main building.
I was waiting to be shoot by the btr inside the building, but no, I didn't.
Before, I did 3 jobs for freedom and after kill 3 squads in bases, i'm still neutral to them.

The closed doors are not a problem to exit the building, it's easy to go out by door at the first floor or by jumping through windows.

Always in Darkvalley, the first squad killed by mercenary in storyline is already dead, when the second is alive.
I received no orders from Freedom but a scripted sound was playing and dogs appears when I was near dead corps as in stroyline.
Here, add a precondition will be fine to prevent this.

In DV, I don't know why, but it's impossible to talk with all freedom npc at the 3 level changers. Something looks wrong with logics before the storyline.
For that I remember in SRP1.1.2, the south level changer didn't have the same logics as the two squad on garbage ways.
It's not consistent with dialogs that say the faction have check point everywhere and control the access to the valley.

Always without starting the storyline by Sido dialogs, I continued my exploration in Garbage.
Here, I can talk and do quest for flea market npc.
The first quest is to take a PDA in a box. Dead corps related to storyline are not here, the spawn probably have a precondition and it's fine.
Except in quest dialogs, dead corps are the main subject...
Add a condition to this quest at fleat market is not the solution because the actor can always kill bandit & liberate slaves, so, a small edit in dialogs can be fine. In french, we have this words "Il n'y a pas âme qui vive", it mean there is no life here, so, it can be there is full of death or just empty of living ppl.
In english, I translate it by "there is no living soul", perhaps do you have better words.
I'll search the dialog line.

I travel to agroprom, did the quest for neutrals. Everything is fine.

About Csky war in 1.1.3, since I leaved the marsh, the renegade take back their base and control the north of swamp.
So, it mean they loose this area and regarding storyline, it's not consistent.
  20:22:34  14 May 2020
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1703
Muad'Dib,


---QUOTATION---
Bandits says they take everything except a gun.
---END QUOTATION---



In the English localization, gar_bandit_robbery_12 is:

"Well, pull out your PDA, time to share the cash. And don't be thinking it's for nothing - you're paying us to maintain order at the Garbage, understand?"

And gar_bandit_robbery_1211 is:

"Wow, you're smart for a loser! So, I'll take all of this, OK? You can keep the equipment - we're no animals to be stealing your guns and stuff. You'll thank us when you run into some mutants, believe me. OK, enough talk - get outta here."

Are you playing a different localization where they say something different? At any rate, it would be too annoying if they were to take the player's possessions too, so I would refuse to fix that even if it had been intended.


---QUOTATION---
I was waiting to be shoot by the btr inside the building, but no, I didn't.
---END QUOTATION---



That's a bug. I guess the developers didn't expect the player to enter the Freedom base before being tasked to do so, because in configs\scripts\darkvalley\val_btr_logic.ltx, we have:
[logic]
active = ph_idle@1

[ph_idle@1]
auto_fire = false
on_info = {+val_come_to_freedom_base_complete} ph_minigun@1

... which means the minigun scheme won't actually start until the player completes the task to enter the base.


---QUOTATION---
I received no orders from Freedom but a scripted sound was playing and dogs appears when I was near dead corps as in stroyline. Here, add a precondition will be fine to prevent this.
---END QUOTATION---



I agree that would be better than the current solution.


---QUOTATION---
About Csky war in 1.1.3, since I leaved the marsh, the renegade take back their base and control the north of swamp. So, it mean they loose this area and regarding storyline, it's not consistent.
---END QUOTATION---



There is a big discussion about this in https://github.com/Decane/SRP/issues/108. In v1.1.2, I hard-coded Clear Sky to take over specific points in the Swamps after they win against the renegades, but in SRP v1.1.3 I removed this hard-coding because it's closer to vanilla without it. However, now that I've received numerous complaints about this, I'm reconsidering. Maybe the tweak I suggested in the GitHub issue (precondition_power = .9) would be a good compromise.
  13:47:36  15 May 2020
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
 

Message edited by:
Muad'Dib
05/15/2020 15:08:14
Messages: 421

---QUOTATION---
You can keep the equipment - we're no animals to be stealing your guns and stuff
---END QUOTATION---



I play with Fra localization, I think the difference is here, I'll check it. If I remember, they are only talking about guns.


---QUOTATION---
I guess the developers didn't expect
---END QUOTATION---


It's very difficult to except everythings. Players are vicious and are doing very unexpected things, for sure. More the game is scripted, more strange events will appears.


---QUOTATION---
There is a big discussion about this in https://github.com/Decane/SRP/issues/108
---END QUOTATION---


Now, I'm entering in red forest. I destroyed the bandit base as a Loner, but I didn't play as Duty or Freedom after it.
I see the same things as you in Swamp, Escape and Garbage. Monsters are taking the control of the Zone!

So, the winners (Csky & neutral in my game) are loosing a lot of smarties, including the enemy base. The respawn of the enemy restart. Renegade or Bandits come back. The faction have two front, one against monsters, another against human. The faction population decrease.

& it create some mistakes in news as "the bandit are back" when monsters are controling the smarty.

And as you wrote on github, Cksy have no reason to attack.
This is why I suggested in one of my previous post to add more expansion section after destroying the enemy base/take the control of level changer (available with or without the actor in the faction if possible).
Secondary targets are not the solution, they are always active.

If I understand, you suggest to edit the precondition power, like this, the faction have to control more point.
Imo, it'll have as result the increase of fight against monsters. So, if the actor is on the level, he will have access to a crazy quantity of loot because of too much dead npc.

In fact, I don't see a good way
Work on health or attack properties of monsters will impact fight between actor and monsters, not fine.
Increase power attack of humans will be the same.
I just find strange than npc are dying so quickly against monsters.

Perhaps work on faction_monster.ltx can be a way, reducing the quantity of monsters squad, or deleting respawn hours between 8 am and 8 pm, adding some target point... increasing the respawn frequency. Or maybe decreasing the travel speed for monsters, like this, they will move slowly from a smarty to another, and from a level to another.
In garbage, it's a very good example. The monsters are coming from red forest again and again and again. Each waves kill a lot of humans & add troubles in faction wars.


---QUOTATION---


[attack_power] rises over time to 100 by 1 point every game hour for mutants.

squad_power must never exceed 25

... which means that even if three loner squads, all with maxed out squad_power, have captured a point, neighboring mutants will eventually attain an attack_power rating which, together with the mutant squad's squad_power rating, produces a sum that exceeds the 3 * 25 = 75 required for them to attack the loner-occupied point.
---END QUOTATION---


Is it possible to reduce this value for monsters squad?
  23:05:25  15 May 2020
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Muad'Dib
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 01/24/2011
Messages: 421
Test & bug report

Bug report SRP 1.1.3:
At red_smart_terrain_bridge, after taking the bridge, if the player doesn't speak with the mercenary leader, the mercenary squad goes at the red_smart_terrain_bridge and stay here.
One of this npc have to be a guide. But in game, he doesn't have the dialog for traveling.
Strange.
After the dialog with the squad leader, they goes to another smarty as it have to be

I'm testing a lot of precondition_power in faction_xxxx.ltx.
It's a very good thing. It need low values imo. I started at 0.5 and add 0.1 at each n+1 expansion, & using a value superior or equal to 0.9 for the last expansion with relax.
It's too much. The faction go everywhere.

By the way, I joined freedom & friend squads goes to red forest.
When they are at red_smart_terrain_4_2, they turn to hostile.
I mean it'll be the same in renegade cave.
  14:16:02  24 July 2020
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Roadkilll
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
Messages: 1307
I started my playthrough again , I'm done with Swamps, Cordon and Garbage. Did all quests and everything works fine.
Noticed that in Swamps war is a bit slower, they no longer pump squads like from factory lol. Clear Sky seems to be not taking interest in Village ruins and the camp above it. Also they didn't hold the Church either..

At some point Renegades from Southern Farmstead pushed to Church leaving the farm unattended, they got intercepted by CS and killed, then we just rolled in and claim it.
Renegades seem more agressove even after war, they sometimes push Clear Sky out of Machine Yard.

In Cordon, some mutant spots are always light red, they are constantly running between camps.
Stalkers seem to be slower on their campaign and no longer push too much , creating constant battles across northern Cordon.

Anti-Alisaning acts weird, as I set it to max whenever I look down in the grass I drop in FPS massively. Turned it off for now.

In garbage, the digger you have to check for PDA message has a wrong portrait. The body is always the model with stalker suit and gasmask, but shows rookie avatar in message. So not sure if thats even his message in PDA so I have to check names on both message and stalker to compare names.

Mutants wanted to attack the bandits at the second entrance that leads to Cordon but somehow they are just idle there and nothing is going on, at least while looking the pda.

Will keep you posted.
  19:29:30  24 July 2020
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1703
RK Roadkill, good to see you again.


---QUOTATION---
At some point Renegades from Southern Farmstead pushed to Church leaving the farm unattended, they got intercepted by CS and killed, then we just rolled in and claim it.
---END QUOTATION---



Should I make the renegades always leave at least one squad at the Southern Farmstead? The reward for capturing it is just a small CS disposition bump + 1000 RU + medical supplies, so the player does not forgo much even if the task is cancelled due to CS capturing it without the player's help due to there being no resistance there.

I encountered the same behavior during my recent play-through, and it did feel a bit odd - I wouldn't want it to become the usual scenario for SRP users...


---QUOTATION---
In Cordon, some mutant spots are always light red, they are constantly running between camps.
---END QUOTATION---



The looping camp navigation of a few scripted mutant squads in the Cordon is by design. The amount of time they stay at a camp before exiting it again is determined by the player's distance to the mutant squad. If the player is several maps away, the mutants will stay at the camp for longer before leaving it again. If the player is on the same map and the mutants are online, they'll likely spend an indiscernibly short time at a camp before leaving it again.


---QUOTATION---
Anti-Alisaning acts weird, as I set it to max whenever I look down in the grass I drop in FPS massively. Turned it off for now.
---END QUOTATION---



Hopefully not caused by anything in the SRP, but try re-enabling AA after renaming/removing gamedata/shaders/r3/mark_msaa_edges.ps. Does it still behave the same way then?


---QUOTATION---
In garbage, the digger you have to check for PDA message has a wrong portrait. The body is always the model with stalker suit and gasmask, but shows rookie avatar in message.
---END QUOTATION---



Maybe the dead digger is the speaker, but changed his outfit between recording the message and dying?


---QUOTATION---
Mutants wanted to attack the bandits at the second entrance that leads to Cordon but somehow they are just idle there and nothing is going on, at least while looking the pda.
---END QUOTATION---



Do you have a screenshot?
  04:14:13  25 July 2020
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Roadkilll
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
 

Message edited by:
Roadkilll
07/25/2020 4:17:01
Messages: 1307
Hey

About the Southern Farmstead, well in vanilla there would always be a squad there holding position, and Clear Sky seem to be avoiding Old Church too. Overall faction wars seem slower.
Loners also launch attacks less frequently in Cordon.
I finished Duty quest and in vanila they would immediately after that rush to Garbage , but in SRP they took camps near base and intersection and do not push to Garbage.
Something is definetly different.

I disabled AA but didn't try the fix you posted, now game is running okay..

Wolf is gone from Rookie haha, dunno what happened, maybe he is dead.

That digger from who you take the Pda message has a sunrise gas mask model, but on messgage avatar it's rookie, who knows haha.

Some NPCs are unresponsive, you can't talk to them they just stand in place.

Freedom for some reason doesn't hold the entrance to the DV behind flea market, also bandits don't hold both entrances to Agroprom.

Clear Sky though lost Machine Yard the second time .

Overall it's working fine, but faction wars are a bit different, I suggest keep to vanilla style but improved if that is even possible.
  14:49:12  25 July 2020
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1703
RK Roadkill,

Could I ask that you do a quick test with AA enabled and gamedata/shaders/r3/mark_msaa_edges.ps temporarily moved elsewhere? That file should not be causing your FPS drop, but as it's the only AA-related file the SRP changes, I'd like to rule it out as a possibility.


---QUOTATION---
faction wars are a bit different, I suggest keep to vanilla style but improved if that is even possible
---END QUOTATION---



First, here is a GitHub issue that describes how many aspects of the faction wars work, if you want to understand them in more detail: https://github.com/Decane/SRP/issues/108.

Once I finish my current play-through, I'll fine-tune the faction wars. It seems all the bug-fixing to them has caused some unintended deviations from how they usually play out in vanilla.

Having said, I haven't tinkered with the faction war config files (gamedata/configs/misc/faction_*.ltx) in any way that would explain these differences. These files are probably our best glimpse into GSC's intentions regarding factions' overall ambitions. If anything, all the fixes have made the game adhere more closely to what those files suggest should happen.

For example, you mention that Duty no longer rushes into the Garbage after the main quest. Well, if you look in either the vanilla or SRP variant of faction_duty.ltx, you can see precondition_actor_in_faction = true and precondition_power = 0 under expansion_1, which only lists precondition_target camps located in Agroprom. That means Duty isn't supposed to rush into the Garbage at the expense of camps closer to home until the player joins them. If they do so in vanilla, this is a happy coincidence rather than the result of deliberate programming. Nevertheless, I'll think of ways I can emulate the vanilla faction wars a bit more closely. Perhaps making gar_smart_terrain_1_5 and gar_smart_terrain_1_7 secondary targets for Duty would achieve this.


---QUOTATION---
Clear Sky seem to be avoiding Old Church too
---END QUOTATION---



If you read my first post in the GitHub issue I linked to earlier, and then look at what resource/territory points Clear Sky holds in your game, you should understand why Clear Sky might not care about holding the Old Church in your game.


---QUOTATION---
Wolf is gone from Rookie haha, dunno what happened, maybe he is dead.
---END QUOTATION---



He is not invulnerable, so he can die - either when online or when offline. I know he survives to SoC in the canon, but making him invulnerable means the player can't kill him either, which would be unfair in the event that the player joins the bandits or has otherwise done something to make Wolf hostile.


---QUOTATION---
Some NPCs are unresponsive, you can't talk to them they just stand in place.
---END QUOTATION---



This happens in vanilla too, especially around campfires. Not sure how to fix it.
  15:15:00  25 July 2020
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Roadkilll
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
 

Message edited by:
Roadkilll
07/25/2020 15:16:13
Messages: 1307

---QUOTATION---
RK Roadkill,

Could I ask that you do a quick test with AA enabled and gamedata/shaders/r3/mark_msaa_edges.ps temporarily moved elsewhere? That file should not be causing your FPS drop, but as it's the only AA-related file the SRP changes, I'd like to rule it out as a possibility.

faction wars are a bit different, I suggest keep to vanilla style but improved if that is even possible

First, here is a GitHub issue that describes how many aspects of the faction wars work, if you want to understand them in more detail: https://github.com/Decane/SRP/issues/108.

Once I finish my current play-through, I'll fine-tune the faction wars. It seems all the bug-fixing to them has caused some unintended deviations from how they usually play out in vanilla.

Having said, I haven't tinkered with the faction war config files (gamedata/configs/misc/faction_*.ltx) in any way that would explain these differences. These files are probably our best glimpse into GSC's intentions regarding factions' overall ambitions. If anything, all the fixes have made the game adhere more closely to what those files suggest should happen.

For example, you mention that Duty no longer rushes into the Garbage after the main quest. Well, if you look in either the vanilla or SRP variant of faction_duty.ltx, you can see precondition_actor_in_faction = true and precondition_power = 0 under expansion_1, which only lists precondition_target camps located in Agroprom. That means Duty isn't supposed to rush into the Garbage at the expense of camps closer to home until the player joins them. If they do so in vanilla, this is a happy coincidence rather than the result of deliberate programming. Nevertheless, I'll think of ways I can emulate the vanilla faction wars a bit more closely. Perhaps making gar_smart_terrain_1_5 and gar_smart_terrain_1_7 secondary targets for Duty would achieve this.

Clear Sky seem to be avoiding Old Church too

If you read my first post in the GitHub issue I linked to earlier, and then look at what resource/territory points Clear Sky holds in your game, you should understand why Clear Sky might not care about holding the Old Church in your game.

Wolf is gone from Rookie haha, dunno what happened, maybe he is dead.

He is not invulnerable, so he can die - either when online or when offline. I know he survives to SoC in the canon, but making him invulnerable means the player can't kill him either, which would be unfair in the event that the player joins the bandits or has otherwise done something to make Wolf hostile.

Some NPCs are unresponsive, you can't talk to them they just stand in place.

This happens in vanilla too, especially around campfires. Not sure how to fix it.
---END QUOTATION---



Sure, I will do the AA thing you suggested and see if it will fix the problem.

Faction Wars

I see, so fixing the issues and making them as GSC intended causes these drastic differences in faction behaviors.
Personally I think it's a bit static like this, in Vanilla Freedom and Duty would often have fights across Garbage and would take over entrances leading to their territory , Freedom would take both of the levelchangers to DV and Duty both levelchangers leading to Agroprom.

Now they are more static and won't do anything without the player which in my opinion is a bit against all what Stalker stands for . But if it's intended let's keep to it.

I can take a look through files you mentioned , I'm no modder though haha.

Loners will sometimes launch the attacks to kick out Bandits at level changers but will fail 90% of the time and will be idle fore quite some times before they try again.

I recall, but can't quote that you would set Wolf to be invulnerable as long as you are friendly with him for that sole reason, but invulnerability would be called of if he was the enemy....or am I mistaking it for maybe some other mod.
Basically players who didn't take his quests right away will probably lose the chance to do so later as Village Center will get wiped out sooner or later.

I'm tasked now to go to Red Forest, might stop a bit to do some faction wars and see what goes on there
  17:44:21  26 July 2020
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Roadkilll
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
 

Message edited by:
Roadkilll
07/26/2020 22:26:50
Messages: 1307
Status report:

I played and won as Duty and Loners and here is my feedback.

For some reason no matter how much resources your faction has they will always send rookies, example while in Dark Valley as Duty my faction had almost full resource bar but for some reason sent only guys with Aksu and seva, rarely a guy in "Duty Skat" , probably those that were there , were ones that were pre-set at the beggining of the game.

It was extremely frustrating to take DV, as Freedom kept pumping up squads like crazy, I swear I spent like an hour running back and forth between 2 DV level changers trying to just help my squads efemd it, and eventually I ran out of ammo and had to go back to trader. I somehow prevailed by rushing ahead and killing every squad alone and attacking the base alone. This was on novice difficulty and I had my armors upgraded fully and thats what helped me soak in the rain of bullets and defeating squad by squad alone.

Enemy squads will just spawn out of blue nearby while my allied faction members need to come all the way out of base, which can take a lot of time.

One duty squad got "lost" kept traveling along eastern DV up and down in a loop.

Basically enemy faction will pump out squads every minute nearby the area you took and launch attacks all the time , while your faction takes thier sweet time traveling and eventually dying soon to constant attacks.

Duty took the camp on level changer that leads to Cordon the one near concentration camp, but left it eventually.

I'm playing now with Freedom and they are also slow sending reinforcements but Duty just pumps out squads like crazy and it's difficult to stop them while your faction has to travel all the way from base. Quite frustrating.

I finished the game factionless, well I came to the part I need to Scout the road through Limansk, so might as well call it a finish

Duty can give side quests in Red Forest that are clearly given by Loners in the description, but I get the decision as often Loners tend to dissappear after a while so it would make the quests inaccesible.

As Freedom, even though holding large portion of the zone, Army Warehouses included my faction resources are still 0.

Had no issues trough the story, all went well, and with most of the sidequests , still didn't do all but those I did went smooth.

I did FW as duty before I went to Army Warehouse and playing with Freedom now post Army Warehouses just to see the outcome when the whole zone is accesible by me and NPCs.

I will do some quests for Orest later and see how that goes as Agroprom is a warzone between Loners and Bandits haha.

Oh , when you join loners, in inventory player faction says: Loner while NPCs , under their name have written "Loners" . Plural.
And in Faction war tab it's Stalkers. Might be a translation error.
 
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