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How accurate are the power differences between NATO and Warsaw Pact guns?

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  12:54:11  15 March 2013
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Senior Resident

On forum: 05/13/2010
Messages: 754


There are significant flaws - ie. the game uses only a single bullet "entity" - so the different weights and shapes and characteristics of ammunition has to be configured using the available configs which ends up involving often really huge compromises. Good example is that to try and model the way a 9mm pistol is essentially almost as deadly as an AK74 at a few meters, yet will be harmless to body armour at 100m, I use jacked up global air resistance balanced against reduced muzzle velocities which I then have to offset by reducing the gravity constant (ie. to stop ridiculous drop).


Screwing around with health and damage settings can produce similar effects, a gun with 0.55 damage is much less likely to kill people than a gun with 0.9 damage at a distance even though technically it would take 2 shots to kill... This is because 0.9 took less of a hit from damage reduction because of range than 0.55. I also know a damage system that took advantage of a quirk in the game to scale damage between pistol and rifle bullet more accurately. It's a complicated procedure tho...

Reasoning there is that even non AP WP 5.45 bullets are designed with penetrator core for good AP effect + even AP rounds in addition to even better penetrator also have the nose chamber feature which induces tumbling via mechanical (and reliable) characteristic - making for great effect also against organic targets.

NATO 5.56 bullets depend on velocity fracturing for good effect against organic targets and non AP rounds have NO redeeming features for AP effect - while AP rounds don't fracture when they hit organic targets. Reading about the "Blackhawk Down" incident in Somalia one comes across references to frustration with "Green tip" rounds doing the "paper punch" thing. It's no comfort that the badguy you capped with three rounds eventually bled out and died an hour later (without adequate medical treatment) when he was able to nail you with an AK round and kill you outright instantly AFTER you tagged him with your M4!! (answer is of course to go for headshots - which is I gather what US soldiers try to do).

Wouldn't that be backward? 5.56 yaws and fractures in contact with flesh so it obviously deals more internal damage, while the 5.45 has a pseudo AP core that stays intact and only produces yaw...

I personally just make the 5.56 an accurate hard hitter that sucks against body armor, while the 5.45 is a shorter range anti armor centric round that, while not effective against flesh, cuts through butter against body armor... This makes the choices the player makes when choosing weapons more profound since it also defines how the player will play and what type of target they'll probably engage.

I generally feel there are too many weapons in STALKER games ("arsenal" style addons make me puke) - and AN-94 really presents me with problems because on specs it's a god-damned super weapon!

The Abakan IRL is basically an over glorified AK-74, it has no other advantages than the ak-74 except for it's burst mode...
  22:37:23  16 March 2013
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Senior Resident

On forum: 04/11/2008
Messages: 409
That quirk to help pistol / rifle damages sounds interesting - but otherwise I find that increasing the air resistance then balancing that against muzzle velocities works out quite well - basically I make sure even pm is insta kill for headshot to Bandit up to 40/50m and 2 shot kill to body at 40/50 (which means sometimes 1 shot kill st close range) - with rifles capable of same at 200 - which is a fair setup within the "miniature" world of the game.

My configs for 5.56 are based on real world anecdotal evidence - ie. the info that even the non AP rounds can tend to be abit unreliable as far as the tumbling/fracturing effect. That leaves me with making them decently powerful but with good accuracy.

The following from a survivalist forum sums up my approach:

"I own both and in FMJ form the 5.45X39 hits harder than the 5.56X 45....I am basing this
on the effects hits had on feral dogs....Using the 5.56, I shot the dog(about 60 lbs) at about 65 yards away, hit behind the should, it turned him around and he started running in the opposite
direction, the second shot hit him in the middle of the shoulder, dropped him and he lay there howling, finished him off with a pistol shot in the head...
With the 5.45, I shot a feral mixed bull,hound at around 50 yards center body about 5inches behind shoulder, he immediately dropped, groaned and died....
Rifles used were an m-16a4 20" bbl with 1x9 twist 55gr bullet FMJ.... 5.45 used was a Polish Ak-74 with standard 60 gr FMJ russian army bullet....
The Afgans caLL THE 5.45x39 The "POISON BULLET"......"
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