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Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

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  16:12:18  4 July 2015
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StoleitfromKilgore
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/27/2010
Messages: 137
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

I was just reading an article on Ultima Online on RPS, when I though of one odd ocurrence in SoC. One playthrough I wasn't quite aware what had happened to Barrin, before I finally stumbled on his 5.45 Groza in the ditch outside the southern entrance to the Bar. But there was no body anyhwere.

So I realized that I do not quite understand how Offline-combat works. My impression was that there is - as opposed to Clear Sky - no combat at all. So I assumed that I simply was in the area somewhere, but missed his death (as usual through dogs). Still, there would have to be a body there, right? He is a unique NPC after all.
  16:27:43  4 July 2015
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AK_Stalker
(Novice)
 
On forum: 12/03/2014
 

Message edited by:
AK_Stalker
07/04/2015 16:34:15
Messages: 5
Barin and Mole allways disappear,even though they have unique weapons on them.Happened to me too,found Barin's Groza on the ground ...
Edit: I just thought of Poker.I seem to remember that I found his gun few times without his body there...
But I'm almost sure that I was in vicinity,and brought those npcs online,just didn't notice their deaths immidiately.
  10:36:12  5 July 2015
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StoleitfromKilgore
(Senior)
 
On forum: 10/27/2010
Messages: 137
Thanks, that makes things a bit clearer.

By the way: Is Poker the one with the SPAS or with the Abakan? I remember that the SPAS-guy showed up in Agroprom Underground the last time I played, but it's not always like that, I think.
  14:59:42  5 July 2015
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AK_Stalker
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On forum: 12/03/2014
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Poker is one with the SPAS,yes.I believe that Friar is the one with the Storming Obokan.I usually play slowly,so I meet both of them in Agroprom.
That time I found the SPAS,it was outside Agroprom Institute building,on the slopes leading to Garbage level changer.There is an offline path which is used by both military and bandits reinforcements.If you get close,it brings them online and firefight starts. And there are pseudodogs hanging there just to spice things up
  15:37:24  5 July 2015
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
07/05/2015 15:37:37
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

NPCs can only be harmed when they go on-line. If they are off-line and
your actions make them go on-line you may not be aware of them if you
are focused on going in a specific direction. Take Garbage for example.
The Player will use the road going back and forth from the Cordon to
Rostok. NPCs do not. They go around the garbage piles on the far east
and west ends. If you are at the far east end of the vehicle scrapyard
you are far enough away NOT to activate the Bandits over the hill to the
west next to the anomaly field. If you enter the vehicle scrapyard and
walk to the center of it THEN you are close enough to make the Bandits
go on-line. Does that give you an idea of the actual range? It exceeds
your Mini-Map so don't use that to judge range. Barin and Mole are not
perma-bodies. Not all single named NPCs are perma-bodies but most do
have unique weapons so keep an eye out for their demise to collect them.

TS
  23:08:16  5 July 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
Messages: 661
Most of the unique NPCs disappear post-mortem, as far as they go it's mainly the ones whom you meet in the Cordon and Garbage early on leaving perma-bodies. But the majority of perma-bodies you'll find throughout the game are randomly-named.

Barin usually moves to the DV side of the Garbage/DV level changer after you hand the X-18 docs to Barkeep. In the interim between obtaining the documents and giving them to Barkeep I've witnessed Barin repeatedly walking out past the checkpoint before returning to the city, hence the likelihood of finding his weapon just outside of Rostok.
  13:41:10  18 July 2015
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StoleitfromKilgore
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On forum: 10/27/2010
Messages: 137

---QUOTATION---

Barin usually moves to the DV side of the Garbage/DV level changer after you hand the X-18 docs to Barkeep. In the interim between obtaining the documents and giving them to Barkeep I've witnessed Barin repeatedly walking out past the checkpoint before returning to the city, hence the likelihood of finding his weapon just outside of Rostok.
---END QUOTATION---



I once met Barrin in the Dark Valley, guarding the level-changer together with Duty. They were all killed off by mutants trying to repopulate the lab-area, while Barrin was sitting behind a rock. He didn't even get involved for some reason. But usually in my games he gets himself killed by the dogs at the southern Bar-entrance. I have never seen him walking out and back into the Bar however.
  00:22:53  19 July 2015
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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---QUOTATION---
I once met Barrin in the Dark Valley, guarding the level-changer together with Duty. They were all killed off by mutants trying to repopulate the lab-area, while Barrin was sitting behind a rock. He didn't even get involved for some reason. But usually in my games he gets himself killed by the dogs at the southern Bar-entrance. I have never seen him walking out and back into the Bar however.
---END QUOTATION---


It's very easy to miss, the only time that I've seen Barin do this is while I'm holding the X-18 documents. At this point in the game he essentially roams around to points all over the Bar map with his head on a swivel, constantly glancing left and right as he walks. I can only assume this is because he's ready to join another Duty camp but none are available to him as of yet.

http://i.imgur.com/FSWr7sE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CGW8Qge.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WwAb6PW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PWYWO9d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p72u2An.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gvYWs68.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/adXX4Oq.jpg

I recently got him to travel to the Wild Territory due to my activating the Duty camp there without having entered the Dark Valley. It's conceivable that one could also coax him to travel to Yantar, the Army Warehouses, or even the Red Forest or Pripyat through bypassing all objectives that activate the camps that one usually sees in the earlier portions of the game. http://i.imgur.com/UMKIvF7.jpg
  06:34:13  20 July 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

One time long ago I found Barin's gun on the ground outside the fenced
in area of the Vehicle Scrapyard in Garbage. It was in the far south-west
corner where people usually never go. I never saw him or anyone near it.
This was back when my Games were shorter. In my longer Games now
he usually doesn't make it out of Rostok and dies waiting for some event
that comes too slow for him to get the prompt to depart heading south.

TS
  02:32:19  21 July 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
07/21/2015 2:34:32
Messages: 661

---QUOTATION---
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

One time long ago I found Barin's gun on the ground outside the fenced
in area of the Vehicle Scrapyard in Garbage. It was in the far south-west
corner where people usually never go. I never saw him or anyone near it.
This was back when my Games were shorter. In my longer Games now
he usually doesn't make it out of Rostok and dies waiting for some event
that comes too slow for him to get the prompt to depart heading south.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Hmm, weird. Maybe someone else picked the weapon up and carried it out that way before falling to the usual influx of bandits and military who travel nearby. Although I wouldn't be surprised at all if some unlikely occurrence could cause Barin to wander the Garbage as well.

I was pretty excited to witness him fighting a poltergeist in the Bar TZ (2nd and 3rd-to-last screenshots in my previous post). Though it even being in that area at the time probably had something to do with my having broken into X-18 sans both keys, as only half the usual number were waiting for me there.
  06:18:48  16 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Usually people are so busy fighting the Mercenaries when they return
from Yantar that they miss the Poltergeist. Your best chance is to go
to the 3rd floor of the unfinished building and look to the north-west.
Unfortunately the other mutants usually kill it before the Player can.

TS
  23:55:19  16 August 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/16/2015 23:55:56
Messages: 661

---QUOTATION---
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Usually people are so busy fighting the Mercenaries when they return
from Yantar that they miss the Poltergeist. Your best chance is to go
to the 3rd floor of the unfinished building and look to the north-west.
Unfortunately the other mutants usually kill it before the Player can.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


I've seen the poltergeist in the WT a few times, but it was exciting for me to find one in the Bar map. Just part of my weird obsession with spotting NPCs and mutants outside of their natural habitats, I suppose.

Have you seen this one before? http://i.imgur.com/dKSCqGF.jpg
  01:49:39  17 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Is that a Poltergeist in that tower? I don't remember one in the RF in a
long time. I do remember some long ago but that might have been PS.

TS
  03:40:25  17 August 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
Messages: 661

---QUOTATION---
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Is that a Poltergeist in that tower? I don't remember one in the RF in a
long time. I do remember some long ago but that might have been PS.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Yup, it's a Poltergeist. Quite likely one that could potentially be found in the WT too, since this was from a game where I went to Pripyat, grabbed the decoder via grenades, and then came back without shutting off the Brain Scorcher or completing any other major objectives. The game registered as though I had actually shut down the emitter once I arrived back in the Red Forest, and the Duty and Freedom exos who battle it out just stood at the bottom of the slope pointing their guns at each other until I moved away from them, when they finally decided to start firing.

But the weirdest part was when I entered X-19. I immediately passed out by the entrance, and after I awoke the Monolith fighters were standing in wait. I was still at the entrance to the facility, so I fought my way in to X-19 in order to flip a switch that did absolutely nothing. Then I left the facility and took that shot on my way back. It was a strange experience.
  06:18:37  17 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Does this mean you never met Doc to get the key to the Pripyat apartment?

TS
  08:21:02  17 August 2015
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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Never met Doc, Guide, Mole, Seriy, or Fox. Aside from collecting the three Mama's Beads and some medkits I basically just ran to Yantar via the TZ, fragged Semenov and got the non-adjusted psi-helmet, then went to the AW and got the Sniper TRs-301, a Vintar BC, suit and ammo, then made for Pripyat. Though I did also make a save in the AW before doing anything so that I could try out playing the entire game as a Freedomer at some point.
  08:33:55  18 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

All that you mention makes me wonder a few things. If you never went
to go see Fox what happens to him? Did you find him dead later? He's
a perma-body. In Yantar while in X-16, you get the prompt to visit Guide.
If you don't go ( or never went back ) would he be there now with Fox?
Of course Doc shouldn't be there if you never met Guide to prompt that.
Seriy & Mole should be there but Mole is not a perma-body and he will
disappear along with the unique gun he carries. Where's your Wolf?

TS
  21:10:38  18 August 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/18/2015 21:12:34
Messages: 661
You're definitely asking the right questions in order to get to the heart of why I decided to do this in the first place (which nicely ties it all in with the original topic). The true goal was to see if I could break any other unique NPCs scripting and get them to start wandering like Barin or Yurik so that I could get them to travel to unusual places. And while this experiment was largely a failure in that regard, I do have a new one that's currently in-progress. Though it's likely my last one involving wandering NPCs (as I can't really think of any other weird approaches to try). http://i.imgur.com/ngECFxr.jpg

As you can see Wolf is still in his original starting position, as are almost all of the unique NPCs. Fox actually doesn't spawn at all until you first speak to Wolf about Nimble (who's still held captive at the Car Park) and then cross the tracks to the northern side of the Cordon. And even poor Tolik has just been lying in that same spot this entire time. The only unique NPC changes I noticed are that Sparrow and Fiend stopped patrolling around the Bar and sat down at the camps, and Barin is gone (probably to the WT). Guide never spawned at all since I didn't go to X-16, and Mole is likely still in his starting position due to my never having entered Agroprom.

Someday I might actually try playing the game "properly" from this point and see what happens, but it'll be after my current experiment. In this newest one I skipped right to saving Mole and then going through the Agroprom Underground, and from there onto Yantar and X-16 to check Ghost. Will let you know if there are any interesting results.
  21:46:24  18 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
08/18/2015 21:50:05
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Here's one for you. Wolf leaves the Rookie Village while you are grabbing
the Documents in the Agroprom. However you can actually track him if
you'd like without doing anything weird. All you have to do is take a task
from him ( giving you 24 hours ) and then rush to the Agroprom. As you
get the Documents, your PDA will tell you the location of where you have
to return to Wolf to get your reward for the task he gave. Now your PDA
becomes a tracking device for his movements. You can meet him in the
Garbage level. If you get the Documents you can follow him to Rostok
and even as he continues north to the Army Warehouses. This alone
is worthy of taking some cool screenshots of you and Wolf traveling.

Of course you can also do one of my favorite things to do before you
ever enter the Agroprom Underground the first time. Do it in reverse.

TS
  04:37:46  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/19/2015 4:38:05
Messages: 661
I'll have to try that with Wolf sometime. I seem to recall seeing some screenshots of yours with him in near the Bar a while back. Same with going through the Underground backward. I've only done so after the initial completion, which was still kinda cool.

Well, it worked. I was able to summon Guide and then meet Doc without doing any story missions other than saving Mole, getting Strelok's flash drive, then completing X-16 and checking Ghost's body. Unfortunately I did have to kill the Garbage-based Warrant Officer in order to pass through the gate on the return trip, but no one seemed to really care all that much.

http://i.imgur.com/Au1fZZm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LQedA9w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RKi3eFg.jpg

Now there are two ways that I could go with this. I could do the early missions now and see what weirdness might occur (hopefully something novel along with meeting Fox and defending him from blind dogs with Guide already there), or I could go properly obtain the decoder in Pripyat and then see what happens with the early missions. Think I'll opt for the latter choice.
  04:42:48  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
08/19/2015 4:43:21
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Make a Manual Save and you can do both. There's a person in the Clear
Sky Forums called Three Mile Island that thinks like you do. He's spent
a lot of time breaking the game prompts for similar type NPC behavior.

TS
  05:00:24  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/19/2015 5:03:40
Messages: 661
Oh, I have manual saves for days. Pretty much every key point in every game that I've played. That was the first lesson that I learned from you.

And I have chatted a little with Three Mile Island, mostly in your SoC 1.0005 thread. He tried out the Silence/Freedom AW trick after I first mentioned it there.
  05:29:09  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

Clear Sky is so buggy I've never tried to mess with it too much in the
way of not doing what the Game says. The only things I've learned is
to always explore levels first before you are told to go meet someone to
talk to them ( which usually initiates massive changes within the level )
and I've ignored where I was told to stand in Yantar for the sniping job.
Additionally I have a whole sequence of alternate choices for the RF.

TS
  05:52:51  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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Yeah, the bugginess combined with the general linearity of the story missions really turned me off to Clear Sky. Not to mention the goofy combat AI and penalties for not defending factions that you haven't even joined. There are definitely some cool moments in there, but I just can never bring myself to make an effort with it beyond that first grudging playthrough. But it sure is pretty!
  08:14:27  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

I love the first 8 levels of Clear Sky that are open-ended. Once you
cross the Bridge to Limansk and enter it, there's no turning back which
is sad because Limansk is a pretty cool level that would have been nice
being open ended. They should have kept only the last level as the point
of no return like SoC. I also hated flooding the underground as a one way
trip. That was repeated again in CoP with it's underground. Bad decision.

TS
  14:25:33  19 August 2015
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Roadkilll
Merc
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On forum: 05/27/2011
Messages: 1307

---QUOTATION---
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

I love the first 8 levels of Clear Sky that are open-ended. Once you
cross the Bridge to Limansk and enter it, there's no turning back which
is sad because Limansk is a pretty cool level that would have been nice
being open ended. They should have kept only the last level as the point
of no return like SoC. I also hated flooding the underground as a one way
trip. That was repeated again in CoP with it's underground. Bad decision.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Tejas SRP lets you go back to Limansk as many times you want it also has a few residents there
  21:10:11  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 29404
Bodies of unique NPCs disappearing?

The next time I play Clear Sky, I'm going back to the 1.5.8 Patch.
The 1.5.10 Patch gimped the Game, reduced the Faction Wars, and
took away a lot of the action and sequence of events that were great.

TS
 
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