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Saving Yurik

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  19:35:26  2 November 2009
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Spawn705
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On forum: 09/14/2009
Messages: 20
Saving Yurik

Hello! Can someone please explain how I can save Yurik? Everytime when I try to shoot the bandits he's gettings killed, and I don't know how to solve the problem!
  19:39:14  2 November 2009
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exxxed
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Use an MP5 (Viper 5), and quick save near the jeep while you're stealthing.

I usually shoot the two bandits on the right, because they sit in a straight line and a short burst will kill them both and the third runs behind the APC.

If you fail, just quick load and try again.

Good Luck Stalker!
  19:55:27  2 November 2009
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TightByte
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On forum: 10/08/2009
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If you "do it right", Yurik should stay in some kind of surrender mode which means the bandits won't shoot him. Only you coming close enough to him will trigger him to "activate" and thus become a valid target for the bandit's violence.

See if you can draw the bandits out to come and face you and eliminate them all before you approach Yurik.

Best of luck!
  19:58:17  2 November 2009
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Spawn705
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On forum: 09/14/2009
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Thank you for advices, I use LURK mode and I have a shotgun and pistol, I didn't tried all the "tricks" but after some minutes the bandits is killing him if I don't do something!
  04:39:11  3 November 2009
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exxxed
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If you use a shotgun, you might as well use a grenade .

Try with the pistol, because you have a high chance of hitting Yurik with the shotgun.
  04:42:30  3 November 2009
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Those aren't Bandits.

TS
  02:41:31  4 November 2009
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RAbbi
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I usually go in the bed of the truck and fire over the two crates in the back. The first time I encountered that situation, Yurik did more damage to his assailants than did I- he's a bit sneaky...
  07:45:10  4 November 2009
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

RAbbi's right. Go up the truck and in the back of it for a higher
field of vision and that's the best position to seperate the two.
Be sure to search the 3 dead Trenchcoats and note their Faction.

TS
  14:49:47  4 November 2009
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angrydog
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On forum: 09/01/2009
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Those aren't Bandits.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Darn Cross-dressers!
  00:14:51  9 September 2014
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Max Chill
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In all versions of SoC I always "break" the battle between Yurik and the trenchcoat Loners by carefully avoiding the trigger area and killing all of the bandits who attack the scrapyard, then talking to Bes for mission completion. As soon as Bes gives the reward, the would-be Bandits and Yurik then simply put their weapons away and go about their business. In vanilla SoC they invariably will stay in the Garbage until their inevitable demise, but one time in ZRP, this happened: http://imgur.com/QetYu8g

Yurik and two of the trenchcoats set up camp at the pig farm in Cordon and lived happily ever after: http://i.imgur.com/UmerwbN.jpg
  01:53:02  9 September 2014
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Roadkilll
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I never continue the game without saving him
  03:00:48  9 September 2014
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Steelyglint
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You mentioned using a mod - does it have smoke grenades? One of those usually makes NPCs run for cover. You can get two of them quite easily while that's going on. Yurick himself often gets the other.

.
  03:54:32  9 September 2014
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Max Chill
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Never saw any smoke grenades in ZRP, but maybe they're in an add-on. My method is vanilla-tested, breaking the scripted behavior is simply a matter of completing Bes' mission without triggering Yurik's attackers. If the player doesn't get involved, they work things out on their own.
  09:05:59  9 September 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I haven't found anyone lives happily ever after at the Pig Farm.
Replacements Bandits & Military traveling south always get them.

TS
  18:27:14  9 September 2014
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I haven't found anyone lives happily ever after at the Pig Farm.
Replacements Bandits & Military traveling south always get them.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Well, that was ZRP. With it, I can keep nearly all of the unique friendly NPCs alive through the end of the game. Whereas vanilla, everyone is doomed.
  21:09:35  9 September 2014
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Roadkilll
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Exactly, in vanilla almost everyone dies, I find Wolf dead in bonfire, Nimble and Petruha in Car Park, Fox also dies from constant mutant spawning in the area, Bes and Yurik are the only one that manage to live long enough to meet them after Brain Schorcher...

Now im playing with 1.0006 patch and latest ZRP 1.07 EE

And everyone is still alive and I'm on my way to Yantar, also Cordon is no longer overpopulated like in vanilla, where after some time stalkers would be everywhere.... but now it's still quiet in Cordon, and thank god no constant Bandit spawning all the time in Garbage and Cordon
Before bodies would be all over the place now everything is still clean

Still ZRP has some issues but it's fine
  22:11:18  9 September 2014
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/09/2014 22:11:49
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Saving Yurik

In that case the ZRP sounds very boring. That would be like if the Nazis
took Paris and control France and no one ever shows up to stop them.
The Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and the war is over for America.
Without the ability for the natural order of conflict and war,
you must have the chance for men to retake what has
been lost or to send replacements to counter
the fortunes of war. No ZRP for me.

TS
  23:00:50  9 September 2014
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
In that case the ZRP sounds very boring.
---END QUOTATION---



Having compared the two I certainly wouldn't call it boring, even though the bandit spawns do seem less frequent in the early game in ZRP. The trade-off is that you'll fight a substantially higher percentage of veteran and expert bandits at other points in the game than you would in vanilla.
  01:56:11  10 September 2014
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Roadkilll
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Tejas I'm not saying the game stops spawning NPC and mutants, in ZRP it's more controlled, no more killing 10 bandits, and going behind a corner to se new 10 spawned out of a blue...

Sure bandits show up and try to retake some outposts but they don't do it like before soon as you change level they just grow out of ground.

It's a matter of taste, i played vanilla a lot but things like this bothered me, since it was action all the time, no time for exploring and checking things out...

So far I enjoy it, you should try it and we'll se what you think about it
  19:08:47  12 September 2014
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Audioave10
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As Cheech once said "They are different but the same, man!"
I like both versions.
  22:12:38  12 September 2014
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
As Cheech once said "They are different but the same, man!"
I like both versions.

---END QUOTATION---



Agreed. I've been enjoying the vanilla game lately, but will undoubtedly install ZRP again at some point. Either one is always an excellent choice.
  03:37:34  21 July 2015
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Max Chill
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Still more Yurik...

Lately I've been dabbling here and there with breaking various aspects of the game and just recently came up with a rather fool-proof method for saving Yurik without killing any Loners before getting at least one of the four to enter the Cordon afterward without fail. It's pretty simple too.

All you have to do is complete Bes' mission first-thing without having triggered the Yurik/Trenchcoat Loner standoff before saving Nimble, then go back to the Cordon and save Nimble. Three of the four will generally join Bes' camp, while the fourth (usually Yurik) will wander aimlessly through the Garbage. As long as the lone wanderer ( ) is still alive when you talk to Nimble after saving him, they'll very likely be the next Loner to pass through the Cordon entrance. That's it.
http://i.imgur.com/hgchTO5.jpg
  08:57:17  21 July 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
07/21/2015 8:57:45
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Saving Yurik

Are you keeping Nimble from going on-line when you bypass him going to that scenario?
I tried this in the past but found Nimble dead because I got near him when going north.

TS
  10:49:31  21 July 2015
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Max Chill
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No, what I did was pretty strange. I skipped talking to Wolf and grabbed the PB from the trailer near Tolik, and then proceeded to kill all bandits in the car park except one. For some reason they wouldn't attack Nimble without the mission being activated.

From there I took out the two bandits at the Cordon outpost and picked up a decent condition Viper 5. After entering the Garbage and avoiding the trigger area for Yurik and friends I collected the hidden 9x19 ammo from the scrapyard, went back around the Garbage pile over by the hangar so as not to be seen approaching before ventilating Vasya Boar's skull to kick off the festivities. I finished the rest off from my usual spot inside the bus nearest to the bandits before speaking to Bes and ending Yurik's dilemma. Because of how I timed it there were no spawning bandits to prematurely trigger the Trenchcoats either, it was perfect.

After that I spoke to Wolf, then took the Rambo option from Petruha before stealthily executing the single bandit guarding Nimble. Then I went back to the Garbage level changer just in time to catch Yurik's entrance before he moved on to the camp near the tunnel from the Dark Valley. That was basically the whole sequence.
  06:20:51  16 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
08/16/2015 6:21:06
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Saving Yurik

I don't know of anyone that has altered the version of events for the
Cordon & Garbage as much as you have. This would make great video.

TS
  23:44:26  16 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I don't know of anyone that has altered the version of events for the
Cordon & Garbage as much as you have. This would make great video.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


I might actually do that at some point. At least show the weird order in which I complete objectives during the first part of the game along with the Yurik trick, how I set up and complete all of the assassination missions and camp eliminations without making any major enemies, how to combine the Freedom and Duty AW quests, the Sniper VLA trick, etc. I highly doubt that my current PC could handle recording and playing simultaneously, but I'll test it out sometime.
  01:45:54  17 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Try the trial version like I did. If you like it you can buy it or not if you
don't mind their logo. It's not supposed to take a performance hit on
your PC like other recorders. Let me know if you need help with settings.

http://www.bandicam.com/

TS
  03:21:00  17 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Try the trial version like I did. If you like it you can buy it or not if you
don't mind their logo. It's not supposed to take a performance hit on
your PC like other recorders. Let me know if you need help with settings.

http://www.bandicam.com/

TS
---END QUOTATION---


I actually did try Bandicam a little while back and even it drops my framerate to levels that I deem unacceptable. But I'll play around with lowering my in-game settings, so perhaps you'll get to see some really ugly videos of me running around and breaking stuff within the near future.
  06:17:19  17 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

What are your system specs? I know you mentioned it before
but I forgot. Often just a new video card can do the trick.

TS
  08:10:23  17 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

What are your system specs? I know you mentioned it before
but I forgot. Often just a new video card can do the trick.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Eh, I pretty much need a new everything:

A8-5500 3.2 GHz
8 GB RAM
HD 6570

Pretty weak, but I got it all very cheap a few years back. Lately outside of the 2D games that I make I hardly play anything other than a handful of hours of STALKER per week. But someday I'll build a real gaming system.
  08:23:30  18 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I found my specs when I played the games when they first came out:

Shadow of Chernobyl:

Abit IS-10 865G socket 478 mATX
Intel Pentium IV 3.4 GHz Northwood
Gigabyte GeForce 7600 GS 256mb AGP
Patriot 2 GB DDR 400 PC-3200 2-3-2-5
Turtle Beach Riviera 5.1 Surround Sound
Antec SLK2650-BQE & Smart Power 500

Clear Sky:

Abit IS-10 865G socket 478 mATX
Intel Pentium IV 3.0 GHz Prescott
Powercolor ATI HD 3850 512mb AGP
Patriot 2 GB DDR 400 PC-3200 2-3-2-5
Turtle Beach Riviera 5.1 Surround Sound
Antec SLK2650-BQE & True Power Trio 650

TS
  20:41:17  18 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Dang, that's some serious specificity there. I truly couldn't even tell you the manufacturer of my current GPU. I just bought it NIB for thirty bucks off of a dude I met through work and then chucked it in my PC (well, I did also need to buy a new PSU off Amazon in order to run it). Before that I was just using the APU, which was good enough for SoC with high FPS on static lighting.
  21:39:13  18 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Well, that's because I picked all the parts specifically and built it myself.
However my current system, I admit I was lazy and bought it pre-built.
The only thing I've changed is immediately replacing the turd video card.

TS
  04:04:38  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Got mine pre-built as well, as it was on sale and cheaper than any of the comparable builds that were near my price range. It's good for old games though, along with some of the less-demanding newer indie releases.
  04:47:06  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Your imgur picture in your signature...is there a story about that?

TS
  04:53:27  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Your imgur picture in your signature...is there a story about that?

TS
---END QUOTATION---


It's a picture of Max Chill: King of the Bandits surveying his Dark Valley domain during an emission in Call of Chernobyl. I highly recommend checking out that mod when it releases, the A-Life and AI are superb.
  08:10:58  19 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I thought it was an empty vessel. The levels are there but it has no
story, no tasks, no missions or anything for the Player to do actually.

TS
  20:40:23  19 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Nah, there's plenty to do. Traders have your usual assortment of item acquisition, assassination, and camp elimination missions. Plus random NPCs also have basic quests as well. And there are stashes to activate (which can be achieved through a fairly novel bit of gameplay), along with the basic framework of a main mission thread (get the psi-helmet, deactivate the Brain Scorcher).

But the A-Life is the best part. It's truly unpredictable, and you'll often find yourself confronted by enemy factions and almost any type of mutant at any point along your travels. Playing as a bandit I would start at the base in the Dark Valley, and just in that level alone I battled with nearly every faction and mutant type on a semi-regular basis (though some more than others as dictated by the general spawns of the levels, meaning that it's not too random). And the difficulty levels have been tweaked a bit so that Master is slightly harder, which makes survival all the more thrilling (and I hear that the lower difficulties have also been balanced to the point of actually being worthwhile).

Altogether it makes for a freeplay experience that easily tops anything that can be found in any of the base games. Plus it's a standalone install, so you wouldn't have to worry about disrupting any of your ongoing games. It's definitely at least worth checking out.
  06:27:55  20 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
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Here's the Yurik trick in its entirety, from the setup to his arrival in the Cordon: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyFU8IPowlVMwLo85wq9Cr8zAb_fViNfF
  10:19:33  20 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Yurik and the 3 trench coat Loners are all perma-bodies so actually
this would be neat to do because you will always find out where they
will end up in case they don't die in front of you ( except in an anomaly ).

TS
  20:31:22  20 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, in my current full game I didn't even know that Yurik had gone to the Cordon until I found his body between the Rookie Village and the Car Park (hence my old "time-traveling"-to-meet-Yurik-in-the-Cordon story). And I've never had the Trenchcoat Loners live very long due to the likelihood of collision deaths in Bes' camp, but it would be awesome to see them pop up somewhere else down the line. Well, as long as one didn't just kill them on sight as a result of their choice in fashion.
  08:26:55  22 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

It would seem you need to create some vacancies in the Cordon to
get the trench coat Loners to leave Garbage. Would getting Petruha
and his men wiped out do that? Could the 3 then go to the drainage
tunnel or do you need to skip meeting Petruha to go to Garbage first?

TS
  22:52:07  22 August 2015
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Max Chill
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I wish this were the case. At around the 2:40 mark in my fourth video you can see that the drainage tunnel is completely unoccupied, and that Petruha still hadn't spawned yet as a result of my skipping the initial convo with Wolf prior to my trip to the Garbage. In fact, the Loner whom I passed on my way out of the Cordon in the second video might have actually been first to enter the level from an outside location. So there was no shortage of empty camps when I brought Yurik to the Cordon by the end of the series.

From what I can tell through sheer observation, three of the four participants in the Yurik event (usually the Trenchcoat dudes) are immediately signaled to move to Bes' camp as soon as the event ends. If a fourth survives it seems that he's given no instruction as to where to move, and enters what I've described elsewhere as "wander mode" (like Barin post-X-18, pre-completion of delivering the documents). And it's when the NPCs are in this destinationless "wander mode" that they can be influenced to move to available spots in other levels.

But I do wonder what would happen with the Trenchcoat Loners if Bes' camp were full when I pulled the Yurik trick (if this is even possible in vanilla). Not sure if I'll ever get around to testing that one though, as it would involve a whole lot of waiting around with very little to do. Although maybe someday I'll see where else I can get Yurik to move to...
  04:50:39  23 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I almost feel you've just tapped the surface of something very interesting
here. There could be possibly be some more variations of Yurik and the
3 trench coat Loners if you kept playing around with the Game variables.

TS
  05:37:45  23 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/23/2015 5:38:49
Messages: 661
Yeah, I'm always on the lookout for ways that I can put other NPCs in this same directionless state. Sometime soon I'll check out what happens when I fully complete the mission-thread to obtain the decoder outside of the rest of the game, since all I have left to do with that is to go and grab it from the Pripyat hotel. And at least I won't have to use grenades to get it this time.

Here's an excerpt from a post of yours on page 116 in the 1.0005 thread that describes NPCs in "wander mode". Do you remember anything at all about what may have caused it?

---QUOTATION---

In my other long Game, I actually had Dutyers go on patrol
going south down the road to Garbage and west from Rostok
into the Wild Territory Twilight Zone going in both directions.
The path I notated on the PDA Map would be walked by them
and they would actually cross each others path like they were
both on long range patrol. This was different than all the other
activity just covered, since it did not involve NPCs as replacements.

---END QUOTATION---

  10:49:46  23 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
08/23/2015 10:59:19
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

My 2nd longest Game where this took place was quite different than
my current one. I didn't necessarily take so long going to each level
like now but instead once I went to Pripyat and came back, that was
the point where I racked up the most time going all over the Zone.

In this Game, as you know I spent more time entering each level and
then going back and exploring and notating the changes more closely.
I paid more attention to when tasks were given and when others would
become available. Right now I've gone as far as the Red Forest. I do
not have any wandering NPCs that patrol Rostok going south and west.
In fact my Bar area ( eastern Rostok ) is at it's lowest point ever of the
extra NPCs found there. I have a single Dutyer around the campfire
hanger closest to Arnie. I have a single Loner around the campfire that
is in the hanger closest to the water tower. My Rostok is an empty town.

In my other Game, Military respawns passing through Rostok had killed
Arnie, the "Get out of here Stalker" Dutyer, the Loner that guards the
100 Rads Bar and the Loner that guards the small building between the
two Hangers. In my current Game I still have all those people, plus all
the Dutyers at their Base, the Dutyers guarding both entrances and all
the regular but variable Bar patrons. I just don't have crowds of NPCs
you normally expect in each of the hangers like I had earlier in the Game.

The largest crowd I had was right before I went to the Wild Territory.
In other words I had not gone to the WT or AW yet and I had so many
Loners & Dutyers walking around inside the Bar area and outside both
of the Duty checkpoints that they were going down all the roads outward.
After I opened the way, and they had places to go: WT, Yantar and AW,
their numbers decreased. I anticipate going to Pripyat would change that
where I might see some traffic again and maybe the patrolling Dutyers.

Some people have described the leader and other members of the Freedom
Base leaving it and being found in the Red Forest or Pripyat but I have never
seen that. That may be due to the ZRP Mod as it changes things besides fixes.

TS
  23:14:32  23 August 2015
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Max Chill
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I've often wondered what the difference is with ZRP that allowed this to happen in my previous game: http://i.imgur.com/QetYu8g.jpg

My first guess is that the lack of campfire deaths and changes to NPC spawns in ZRP enabled me to keep everyone in camps alive to the point where there weren't any available spots in the Garbage when I first discovered the trick with the Yurik event. Plus it does seem like the way that NPCs travel has been altered somewhat for the mod, as IIRC Loners in ZRP would often travel together in large groups (like what's shown in the above pic). Whereas in vanilla I don't remember ever seeing more than three in a mobile group.

It is quite interesting how random NPCs were engaging in this aimless wandering behavior in your previous game, though. I've still only directly noticed it with Yurik and Barin. It's too bad that many who mention having seen other NPCs in different levels than usual don't think to take screenshots of these occurrences. But then again I suppose that most players don't really geek out on these things as much as I do.
  00:57:47  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I have to keep reminding myself that what you may do may never be
what I can do or will result the same since you are using the ZRP Mod.

TS
  01:03:09  24 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I have to keep reminding myself that what you may do may never be
what I can do or will result the same since you are using the ZRP Mod.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Nah, i used ZRP in my game before this. The one I've been discussing in your 1.0005 thread and making videos of is completely unmodded. The only difference is that I'm running 1.0006.
  01:18:36  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Another thing that I read about that greatly disappointed me is about
Autumn Aurora 2. I wanted to try it but read it incorporates the ZRP.

TS
  01:32:36  24 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/24/2015 1:32:55
Messages: 661

---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Another thing that I read about that greatly disappointed me is about
Autumn Aurora 2. I wanted to try it but read it incorporates the ZRP.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Well, Autumn Aurora 2 is a gameplay overhaul in addition to being a graphical one, so the addition of ZRP is actually a good thing due to it's increased stability. After revisiting the unmodded game I am inclined to agree with you that the vanilla game is underappreciated and that the majority of issues within it can be mitigated through constantly making regular hard saves, but I do also think that ZRP is an excellent mod that gives an experience not too far removed from the unmodded one. And every single trick that I had devised within my ZRP playthroughs has been repeatable within the unmodded game.
  01:38:42  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

What would be ideal is to get the 3 trench coat Loners to the Cordon.
At the beginning of SoC you can meet a Loner traveling there from
the electro tunnel direction alongside the fence line. The trouble
with most any other location, like the Car Park, the Drainage
tunnel, the Pig Farm, the 2 man boulder crew or any of
the other locations is that they will die very soon.

TS
  02:00:37  24 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
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True, and getting them to the Cordon is the one thing that I haven't been able to replicate from ZRP playthroughs in my current unmodded game. The only way that I can really see making that happen is to have enough Loners fill up every single camp in the Garbage, and I'm not sure that the random NPCs even start to move in until you complete each camp's corresponding mission. Not to mention that it would take a very long time for the camps to fill at this point if this were even possible. It would be awesome to find a way to get the Trenchcoats to the Cordon without having to make a huge production of it, but for the moment I'm satisfied with the simple and repeatable method that I've devised for getting Yurik there, at the very least.

Edit: Although I did just have a weird idea for a possible way to do it (which isn't far removed from my Purge the Freedomers trick). It's a long-shot and might be kinda tough to pull off, but it's worth a try.
  02:48:33  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Also there's a point in Garbage after you help Seriy at the Train Depot
where 2 Loners arrive and stand guard outside of the main entrance.
Wouldn't that be cool to have 2 trench coat Loners to be the ones?

TS
  03:28:26  24 August 2015
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That would be pretty rad. They seem to have a very strong preference toward joining Bes' camp, though. Even in the past when I would help Seriy before doing Bes' quest the three would still move to the vehicle scrapyard and the fourth would still go into "wander mode" and be susceptible to moving into the Cordon. But it is possible that doing other later story missions prior to ending their event might have some effect on how they choose where to go. And destroying the Loner perma-bodies in the scrapyard might cause some early random spawns that could perhaps change how the fake bandits get assigned after the Yurik thing, but making this happen is much easier said than done as the Yurik event is very easy to set off.
  05:51:53  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Have you tried skipping Yurik and Bes entirely and going straight to
the Train Depot with Seriy? Create the conditions for vacancies there
first then going to do your Bes thing while the trench coat Loners might
first respond to the Train Depot rather than the Vehicle Scrapyard next?

TS
  08:40:02  24 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, when I wrote about doing this a back in the 1.0005 thread I helped Seriy first and then killed the scrapyard bandits for Bes. The Trenchcoats went to Bes' camp and Yurik ended up in the Cordon. But I would skip talking to Seriy afterward because doing so would supercede Bes' mission entirely and cost me a mission completion and reward. It's possible that breaking the Yurik event in this way instead might create different results, but I didn't explore it too thoroughly.
  14:04:52  24 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

There's a Bandit in a Stalker suit outside the Flea Market. Depending
on the angle you come from he can be found alive with another regular
Bandit in wait like a trap. However most people don't approach him from
the south but the west and he is often found dead. I wonder that if he is
ignored does he stay there alive and could possibly go somewhere else
or is he scripted to die after a certain period of time no matter what.

TS
  20:41:50  24 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Hmm, that's a good one. There might be some kind of quest completion that could break that scripted event as well, but keeping him alive would not be easy due to the Loners and mutants who travel nearby. In my current "proper" game I took out his friend, wounded the pseudo-Loner, and then left him there for days. I even went so far as to defend him from mutants, but eventually some real Loners came along and ended his misery: http://i.imgur.com/NGfia69.jpg
  08:49:52  25 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I guess there were a few attempts to trick people who react quickly
without checking their PDA contacts or use the NPC identification.
Your 3 trench coats robbing Yurik. Most people kill them and never
realize they were Loners. The other being the Bandit by the Flea Market
who waves at the Player hoping the suit will put you at ease before the
trap is sprung. My next Game I'm going to explore this more to test it.

If you are wondering why I called the collapsed building in Garbage the
"Flea Market", it is because it's a Clear Sky term and location. The building
is in better condition and is the location for where the Loners hang out in
2011. It has 2 Traders, a Repair Tech, a Guide and some other characters.
Clear Sky is worth it alone to see how the levels of SoC in 2012 are very
different the year before in CS in 2011. You'd never know the Pig Farm
in the Cordon was the location of the main Loner Base in the Zone. Duty
has the military base in the Agroprom and Freedom the base in the Dark
Valley. I got my money's worth out of Clear Sky in the 1st level Marshes.

I've always been fascinated by the Loner with the VAL in the brown trench
coat who shows up sometimes in the 100 Rads Bar. I always wished he
had more dialogue and story than the single thing he tells you about.

TS
  20:46:36  25 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I guess there were a few attempts to trick people who react quickly
without checking their PDA contacts or use the NPC identification.
Your 3 trench coats robbing Yurik. Most people kill them and never
realize they were Loners. The other being the Bandit by the Flea Market
who waves at the Player hoping the suit will put you at ease before the
trap is sprung. My next Game I'm going to explore this more to test it.

If you are wondering why I called the collapsed building in Garbage the
"Flea Market", it is because it's a Clear Sky term and location. The building
is in better condition and is the location for where the Loners hang out in
2011. It has 2 Traders, a Repair Tech, a Guide and some other characters.
Clear Sky is worth it alone to see how the levels of SoC in 2012 are very
different the year before in CS in 2011. You'd never know the Pig Farm
in the Cordon was the location of the main Loner Base in the Zone. Duty
has the military base in the Agroprom and Freedom the base in the Dark
Valley. I got my money's worth out of Clear Sky in the 1st level Marshes.

I've always been fascinated by the Loner with the VAL in the brown trench
coat who shows up sometimes in the 100 Rads Bar. I always wished he
had more dialogue and story than the single thing he tells you about.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Yes, the Flea Market where Wild Napyr hangs out and gives missions that upset the bandits, as well as where Scar gets robbed by said bandits while looking for Fang's PDA. And the Pig Farm where the still-living incarnation of Father Valerian resides, as opposed to the dead one found in the Red Forest. I have played Clear Sky, I simply no longer play it. Of course it does have many great things going for it as it's still a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game, but there are a lot of issues that I have with it that make me want to play other games instead. And its level of instability sure doesn't help with that either. It's cool that other people dig it and all, but it's just not for me.

As for the Stalker suit-wearing bandit, keeping him alive in a "normal" game will require either some serious online/offline management or the killing of nearby Loners. But I had an interesting idea regarding another way: What would he do if the player joined Freedom before approaching him? I have a save in the AW where I've done absolutely nothing in the game prior to arriving, so I'll be testing this one out sometime soon.

I share your same fascination with the AS Val-toting trenchcoat-clad Loner in the Bar, as the trenchcoat is my overall favorite style for NPCs. He was originally going to be in my avatar here, but I just couldn't get the shot that I wanted without his gun looking aliased AF. But if I ever get around to making the story mod that's been sitting in my head for a while now he'll be a central character in it.
  21:55:05  25 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I misunderstood you thinking you had heard bad things about Clear Sky
and didn't want to try it. I quickly learned to totally ignore Wild Napr.
All his tasks resulted in ruining the good relations I had worked hard for.

Did you know if you go around and visit the various places in Clear Sky before
talking to the primary NPC you are prompted to, you will see a totally different
scenario? For example, entering the Cordon you should talk to Sidorovich last.
Once you talk to him everything shifts and people and Factions migrate. In the
Dark Valley you can visit and talk to the Freedom troops that you later find dead.
Avoid the Vehicle Scrapyard until you have better relations with the Bandits and
later you can go in and talk to the Bandits and even give weapons to the prisoners.

TS
  22:24:12  25 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Those do sound cool, but unfortunately I never played around with Clear Sky enough to discover anything neat like that. Once I got to the mid-point of the game I gave up on having any fun and just forced myself on to the ending so that I could move on to CoP. The only trick that I found in it is surely common knowledge to most everyone here: Waiting until Loners take over the level-changer checkpoints to enter the Garbage, and then waiting until the bandits retake the same checkpoints so that I could buy a SEVA from them.

Oh, and I guess I did try Clear Sky Complete not too long ago to see if it was any more stable, but I gave up soon after due to feeling bad from picking on all of the half-blind people in it.
  08:04:47  26 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Clear Sky is a gem few take the time to realize. Everyone wants to rush
through the Marshes thinking things really start in the Cordon. They don't
realize that the more time you spend in the Marshes, the better you can
prepare yourself for the future. Sad that most people don't acquire and
upgrade fully the best armor in the entire game that you get in the Marshes.

TS
  21:13:47  26 August 2015
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Max Chill
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The Marshes were actually my favorite part of Clear Sky, and I did stick around long enough to obtain and upgrade the CS-1 and find some of the better stuff hidden around the level like the Vintar BC or the Veles detector. It's mostly in the later missions where the game falls apart for me, with the majority of the story ones feeling overly-scripted and linear while the repeatable ones always struck me as being clunky and uninspired (psychic stalkers constantly predicting hordes of too-effective mutants that promptly make a beeline for their camp, no thanks). CoP has some missions that I feel the same way about but overall it strikes a greater balance between the openness of SoC and the funneled-to-intended-outcome feeling that I get from a large portion of Clear Sky. It's just a personal preference thing, and though I do respect the cool discoveries that you've made in making the game less of an A-to-B experience there isn't really anything short of a truly amazing total-conversion mod that could ever make me want to run that program again. It does contain some cool story though, and that's why I'm glad that I at least played it once.
  21:46:13  26 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
08/26/2015 21:46:56
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

One of my favorite things to do in Clear Sky has to do with the Quest
Tasks. These are the jobs that various NPCs in each level can give to
go find items and bring them back. It's not the rewards I seek but in
how to choose the right person to give the job. It's no fun to take it
from someone in safe area but it's also risky to take it from someone
that gets killed before you can return to them to give it up and get the
reward. My favorite thing is to take the task, return the item, then to
keep track of them. If they are killed by men or mutants, then I go
collect the unique item off their dead body. I was able to do this in
one game and recover 70 to 80% of all the unique items. I guess
this appeals to my hoarding items mentality that I seem to have.

TS
  22:55:38  26 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Haha, you are indeed a virtual hoarder, TS. I do this to a lesser extent as I'm fine with selling the stuff that I won't use, but also do enjoy building a little trophy collection of certain things like artifacts and unique items. It is cool that you can retrieve the items after handing them over for quest completions though. I do this a little bit in SoC like with the Storming Obokan or Family Rifle, but things like the Mail Suit or Sniper TRs-301 will usually be handed over once I wear them out beyond the point of usability.
  21:09:02  27 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

While all armors can be repaired, it is disappointing that the unique
weapons have so much wear. What's the point of getting a unique
weapon that is so worn down the Player can't use? You would think
at the very least they would be obtainable at the peak of their usability.
While it may not last long, at least the value of getting them would be more.

TS
  04:00:43  28 August 2015
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Max Chill
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The lack of repair does tend to make the majority of unique weapons almost entirely worthless. This was another issue with the game that led me to install ZRP for the most of my previous playthroughs. I've acclimated to farming full-condition weapons in vanilla now, but it is kind of a drag that I can't use the Vintar BC as much as I'd like to.

I think a really cool mechanic for a mod or perhaps future games in the series would be to have a maintenance stat along with the existing weapon condition stat. This way the player could maintain their weapon in the field between uses, and keeping the maintenance stat high would decrease the rate of degradation for the condition stat. It's never made much sense to me that a guy whose name means "Shooter" along with a seasoned mercenary and an undercover soldier all don't know how to maintain their own firearms.
  08:50:04  28 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

There's 5 Vintars in unmodded SoC and only the last one has a little wear.

TS
  19:38:04  28 August 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

There's 5 Vintars in unmodded SoC and only the last one has a little wear.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Yeah, and I have most of 'em just sitting in a box in the AW. They'll see some action when I finally get around to actually finishing my game: http://i.imgur.com/qaSNbwY.jpg
  22:27:40  28 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I've really only used mine one time so far in this Game. It was defending
the border from the Monolith at the Freedom Barrier. I needed some
accurate, heavy rounds to do the job and I wanted to ensure the most
Freedom survivors. I may use it again when I go to Pripyat as I know
there are going to be some rooftop and elevated apt. dwelling targets.

I wish I had used it earlier with my Freedom assisted assault against
Colonel Skull and his Renegade Duty. I used an ordinary Abakan and
it was barely effective against the heavily armored & well armed Dutyers.

TS
  00:10:34  29 August 2015
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Max Chill
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I use it to defend the border against the Monolith as well, and for the majority of the game from that point on (though I'll generally switch to a GP37 for indoor battles, but this time I might bring a Sniper VLA instead). The 9x39mm round cuts through high-end armor well enough to make any human foe much less formidable. And you've seen how I use it to get rid of Skull and his men. Not a whole lot of wear or ammo expenditure with that method.
  08:10:02  29 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Clear Sky however is entirely different. You can usually pick up a new or
mildly used Vintar in the Cordon, Limpid in Garbage ( if I remember correctly )
will upgrade it and the Night Trader at the Flea Market sells the ammo for it.

TS
  08:57:57  29 August 2015
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Max Chill
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Sure, I looted a decent condition one off of a dead Loner from the Cordon. It almost made things slightly more enjoyable.
  06:57:21  30 August 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

What really pissed me off is the partially upgraded Vintar that Forester
gives the Player in the Red Forest. This action would only benefit the
type of Player that went from the Marshes to the Red Forest in a day
or two. To an average Player that takes more time, this is too little
and too late in the Game. Even if using the exploit to get multiple
Vintars, by this time in the Game the Player doesn't need the $.

TS
  20:31:06  31 August 2015
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By the time I reached that point in the game I was focused solely on reaching the end, especially after the chase sequence with Strelok where I shot him in the head a few times and he didn't even miss a step. It's been a while and the memory is hazy but I think I may have even discarded Forester's gift since I already had a fully upgraded Vintar BC, not even realizing that it had superior accuracy over mine until I read about it on the wiki later on. Oh well.
  11:22:27  1 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Actually the Vintar from Forester is not that great. While it does have
better accuracy than a normal Vintar upgraded to the 2nd Tier, it is only
upgraded to the 1st Tier itself and cannot accept any further upgrades.
A normal Vintar upgraded to all 3 Tiers is superior of which the Player
should have gotten long ago before ever entering the Yantar level.

TS
  06:59:30  2 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Well maybe someday I'll try out the earlier patch version of CS that you say you prefer. But with my ongoing SoC games along with Call of Chernobyl and Sketch Tales and Cossacks 3 right around the corner and the LA Developer's Cut hopefully not too far off, I doubt that I'll be getting to it anytime soon.
  08:13:48  2 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I wouldn't count on the LA Director's Cut any sooner than next summer.

TS
  08:46:11  2 September 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I wouldn't count on the LA Director's Cut any sooner than next summer.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Bummer. I read Dez saying in a comment on ModDB that it'd probably be out this year, though this was a little while back. But CoC and Sketch Tales are both supposed to be out fairly soon and Cossacks is Q4, and even CoC alone would be more than enough to keep me busy for some time.
  22:00:52  2 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Well...let's say his estimate was optimistic while mine is pessimistic.

TS
  00:28:23  4 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Got it. Well whenever it actually comes out I'll be glad to play a "completed" version. The earlier versions had some great moments, but IMHO there just isn't a whole lot of replay value there as of yet.
  22:10:30  4 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I may end up attempting to play LA from beginning to end ( with the
1.3003 patch, which I have never done yet ) and possibly make some
videos before the Director's Cut will be out. At the end of 2015 or later.

TS
  01:19:28  5 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I'd watch that. The 1.3003 patch was mostly stable for me, only a few assorted crashes here and there (and mostly when I was trying to do weird stuff like heal enemies). If you do play it, be sure to drop by the factory in Agroprom while you're friendly with the bandits to catch the potentially lucrative minor bug that led to my "sideways flying bandit" screenshot.
  08:17:58  5 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

In Testing, once you got the Bandit Jacket and the Bandits became
friendly ( green ) and you attempted to leave the level and come back,
the Bandits upon your return would become hostile ( red ). Is this no more?

TS
  09:00:51  5 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Apparently so. I was able to travel between the Dark Valley and Agroprom many times while disguised as a bandit, and even went into the "Wild Territory" portion of Rostok and hung out with the ones over there, as well as the bandits in the Forest level. It wasn't until I took the docs from Borov's safe that I became their enemy again. It was a sad day, as their trader has some truly great prices and basically had me fully-stocked on ammo, gas, and supplies for the rest of the game.
  19:43:48  5 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/05/2015 19:44:44
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Yes, the Bandit Trader was one of the best resources in the early game
as I bought huge amounts of 5.45 BP ammo from him. I always cringed
when I read about dumbasses who couldn't find the Bandit Jacket, who
killed all the Bandits on the base and never discovered the Trader's value.

The Forest level is one of my favorites and in testing I explored it before
the Bandits were added and later afterward when they were there. Like
I may have mentioned before, after being a Tester for 2 years, I was
active for a little while after the leak and for 1.3001 & 1.3002. By
the time 1.3003 came out, I was burnt out from testing broken
versions that I constantly lost all progress on starting over.
I never dreamed that the 1.3003 version would be
the last one for over a year now as it has been.

TS
  21:01:29  5 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
09/05/2015 21:02:58
Messages: 661
I played both of the previous release versions up to a point and had to start over as well, but you undoubtedly went through that many more times while you were testing the game. The 1.3002 version in particular had some of the coolest moments involving unrestrained A-life behavior that I've experienced in a STALKER game.

Having the Construction Site trader show up in the Cordon to fight the bandits there made completing his missions incredibly difficult, but in retrospect was a neat thing to witness. Same with the time that I was dealing with the bandit trader and he stopped mid-trade to gun down a Loner who ran in to assault their base. But my favorite moment was when I was stealthily fighting my way through the Monolith base in the Dark Valley late at night and a Loner who my PDA identified as being drunk stumbled in with seemingly similar intent. He then proceeded to empty a mag from his AK at a one of the base's residents, and then promptly took off running into the night. Shortly after I heard a scream that sounded like he got caught in an nearby anomaly. It was a nice bit of random comic relief during an otherwise tense moment.

http://i.imgur.com/Iu6orO7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jt2UO2M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9n5JCdN.jpg

Some people complain about the lack of random A-life encounters in LA, but moments like those really give me hope for what the DC version will bring. Hopefully Dez0wave finds some good people to help them finish it up, as I see a lot of great potential there. If I had any real knowledge of working with the SDK I'd certainly offer some of my time, but all of my STALKER skills pertain only to gameplay. I've been studying some of the modding resources a bit lately here and there, but it'll probably be a while before I can do anything truly useful with the engine.
  01:28:23  7 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/07/2015 1:31:35
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Saving Yurik

Now you've given me something to look forward to. When I first started
testing, most all the levels were complete in the way they looked but the
anomalies, wandering men and mutants had not been added yet. There
were a few scripted scenarios for the main story in each level but there
were no secondary tasks, no dispersion of people other than those at
specific locations as needed. The focus was only on the main storyline.

The most interesting thing that I quickly discovered was that individual
members of the Dev Team were assigned individual levels. While Dez
himself may have made the levels, the scripted action involving the
Player in each level was the assignment of each person. Once I started
giving feedback to Dez ( leader of Dez0wave ) and Vintar ( lead developer
in charge of making changes, fixing bugs and unifying the big picture )
I discovered that neither of them knew what was happening in every level.
I often described actions and events that were a surprise to them and
they had no idea what I was talking about on occasion. Keep in mind that
while there had been other Testers before me, they all played on God-Mode
where they were impervious to being killed or the need to manage their
inventory, look for supplies and treat the Game as a semi finished product.

Now I'm not saying they were at fault. I could have used God-Mode too
and solely focused on the main storyline and have gone quickly through
all the plot lines and quickly to the end. However that's not why Dez
asked me to join them. He knew from my posts of playing the Games
that I would often stray from the scripted path. That I would do things
on my own time and in my own way. I was the radical element that did
things differently and would hopefully uncover things the others would
never see or think of doing. This method worked well for both of us.

The downside is that often with changes related to bug fixes and such,
I would have to start a new game again and again meaning the beginning
of the game got a lot of attention while the other half did not. The thing
a lot of people may not know, is in the long period of times when things
were being worked on and fixed, Dez would often create new levels to add
( like Forgotten, Countryside & Forest ) that weren't there to begin with.
There will never be a single complaint from me about the hard work and
creativity of Dez to give us stunning and absolutely beautiful levels. His
effort alone makes Lost Alpha worth playing despite any other problems
it has with the storyline, tasks and whatever. LA is a piece of art to me.

TS
  21:47:53  7 September 2015
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Max Chill
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The levels are incredibly well designed, that does seem to be one of Lost Alpha's positive attributes that pretty much everyone seems to agree upon. I recently traveled through an early-build version of Darkscape in a mod I was playing and found the level to be incredibly dull in comparison to the level of detail found in the LA version. The only complaint that seems to come up often regarding the levels usually involves people not being able to find the 100 Rads, which is kind of hilarious considering all of the signs pointing the way. Sure it's written in Russian, but even as a person with virtually no comprehension of Cyrillic script it took me about thirty seconds to figure out what all the signs that look like "Gap" meant.

Unfortunately all of the unique NPC encounters that I described earlier pertain only to the 1.3002 patch. In the 1.3003 version I don't recall seeing any of the wandering behavior with NPCs, as it likely broke some quests due to the NPC's propensity toward stumbling into deadly situations. Keeping the trader Alex alive at the factory in the Cordon long enough to complete his missions was only even remotely possible via prolific save scumming, what with him and the respawning bandits occupying the same area and all. Hopefully some element of the wandering behavior can be reintroduced in the DC version without endangering important NPCs too much, but of course this is much easier said than done.
  01:25:23  9 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/09/2015 1:29:38
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

All the versions of LA's Darkscape that I'm familiar with have high
unclimbable walls on the eastern and southern sides. As you know
this was changed to have a seaport behind the gas station where the
Mercenaries are. I have not seen this yet as I didn't get as far with the
first two patches and stopped playing waiting for the third. Originally the
Mercenaries had no associated tasks and were just there. I suggested
that something be created for them to be involved with so it's good
that was finally done. The seaport is another example of Dez
creating something new while he waited for Vintar to finish
with the bug fixes and changes to the NPC behavior.

It's unfortunate to hear that the things you liked were with the second
patch as with a more unrestricted NPC A-Life. However I don't think the
Forgotten level Trader should leave his post and end up in the Cordon.
The last thing I remember hearing were the complaints of a Burer added
in the Forgotten level that would kill him and everyone at that location.
I tried endlessly to talk them out of Wolf going to the factory in the
Cordon. It made no sense for him to tell a new player he was there to
help Rookies at the Rookie Village and then to immediately leave it and
go to a location where he was quickly killed. The most frustrating thing
in talking to Vintar was explaining how things were not logical and did
not make sense in things he did. He did not want to hear it. His mindset
was NOT on being a Player but a Dev/Modder. How he could do things
that were cheap and easy for a content creator often losing focus on
how it would appeal or be viewed by the Player. Vintar was extremely
stubborn and refused to see any other points of view other than his own.
This no doubt was the biggest cause of Dez0wave losing all the members.

TS
  05:44:59  9 September 2015
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Max Chill
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From what you describe it sounds like Vintar was focused mainly on finishing his part of Lost Alpha's development so that he could move onto something else. If that is actually the case then it's very unfortunate for the project and all involved that he didn't take his role in its development more seriously. I suspect that the leak of LA and its source having ended the possibility for monetization likely played a major role in such a profound loss of interest, but of course this is poor attitude to take with such an eagerly awaited and long-gestating release regardless of any lack of financial compensation. Hopefully if he's involved with Dez0wave's upcoming project he can manage to maintain his interest well enough to at least attempt to craft enjoyable gameplay scenarios without resorting to the same kinds of cheap shortcuts, if he's indeed capable of doing so.

As I recall the issue with the Burer at the Construction Site was addressed in the 1.3003 patch by either decreasing its detection radius or even by removing the mutant altogether (I forget exactly which as it's been a while since I played this). Keeping that group of Loners alive in earlier versions was quite difficult though. I remember racing to kill the Burer fast enough to at least save Alex the trader and succeeding with the only casualties being the door guards at the building. I personally kinda liked the challenge of that part, but trying to keep Alex alive when he wandered off was more irritating than fun.

There were at least two missions involving the mercs in Darkscape that I recall from the last patch, both of which I greatly enjoyed. I managed to complete the one for Alex without killing any of them. When I came back later to kill them for another mission it was an enjoyable battle, and by the end there was only one injured merc and myself. He started to patch himself up, and I decided to wait until he made a move before I made mine. I'm sure you can guess where things went from there. http://i.imgur.com/EbWdkQS.jpg
  21:35:03  9 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

No doubt the leak changed everything. The other big thing was the
rejection of GSC Game World for the Game not being hard enough.
Hence the cheap and easy solution of adding Helicopters to just about
every scenario possible. From a Devs point of view this may have a
great idea. From a Player's point of view, this sucked the fun right out
of the Game. I am uncertain as to what happened to Vintar other than
Dez told me he left because he had a job with a Game company in
South Africa where he lives. I don't believe this. I think he made this
up as an excuse to stop working on something that would not produce
any profit once the initial donations to Dez0wave dried up & were no more.

TS
  03:40:36  10 September 2015
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Max Chill
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The notion that GSC Game World rejected LA because of the level of difficulty is interesting, as I had previously been under the impression the rejection was due to a lack of polish in the scripted events and cutscenes. Still, a dev who actually cares about making a good game would at least give some consideration to a tester's opinion how a scenario plays. It's the hacks out there who only care about shipping the title that plug-in asinine solutions like invincible enemies which inevitably ruin the audience's appreciation of said game, something that's especially important with a somewhat niche title like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Anyone who wants to make another entry in this series that is actually successful will seriously have to consider what it is that people like about these games, otherwise the fanbase will drop it like a hot potato and run screaming back to the originals that they love.
  08:07:27  10 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

The version that GSC got was just the basic version with the main plot
line and story before all the secondary tasks and additional AI ( mutants
and NPCs had been added ) which just wasn't that difficult. The hardest
part of the Game I found was dealing with all the crashes and bugs and
not the action. When I got in the vehicle at the Monolith Base where the
helicopter starts attacking, I was the first Tester to successfully make it
to Darkscape. Vintar was astonished that I had accomplished that as all
the others before me had failed. His idea of making the Game harder was
invulnerable helicopters that you couldn't shoot down. Somehow in his
mind, that was supposed to be an enjoyable experience for the Player.

One thing you may find interesting is that most of the team was so focused on SoC
that they had never finished a Game of Clear Sky or CoP. A few had dabbled in the
newer Games but spent very little time, if any in them. When I tried to explain to
Vintar that people wanted armor and weapon upgrading like they were used to in
CS & CoP, he was resentful saying he never really used or liked those features.

To me the 3 worst things about LA are the crappy, crude versions of armor and
weapon upgrades and the absolute cluster-fuck all the artifacts and their properties
are. Most are useless and do nothing. They took pictures of the new artifacts used
in CS & CoP and changed the names, changed the properties and made a huge mess.
I could not get them to understand how important weight carrying artifacts were wanted.

TS
  20:16:49  10 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I mostly just find it strange that anyone who's enough of a fan to mod SoC wouldn't at least play through the later games in order to get a full sense of what they have to offer. Not to mention that a lot of the missions in LA remind me more of Clear Sky than SoC, with their heavily-scripted sequences, unavoidable trigger areas and abundance of "Go talk to this guy, now go back and talk to that guy" type of missions. And Vintar's skipping over the weapon upgrades due to simply not liking them seems weird as hell too, but to each their own, I suppose. The upgrade system in LA was kind of nonsensical, but I do remember liking some of the burst-fire upgrade options on pistols like the Walker P9m.

The artifact attributes were another bizarre aspect as well. Early-on I found a Rock artifact and was amazed by its absurdly overpowered nature, adding +10 Health, +10 Rupture and +10 Bulletproof. I was even more amazed when I got the artifact transmutation device and found that I could buy a recipe that would allow me to make even more Rocks. After creating a few and adding them to some high-grade armor I was suddenly a walking tank with a sniper rifle, and basically ended up sleepwalking through the rest of the game while waiting for a difficulty spike that never really happened. Aside from the endurance ones basically every other artifact I found couldn't compare to the usefulness of the Rock and was tossed in the trunk of my Moskvitch, never to even be considered again. A cluster-fuck indeed.
  08:41:52  11 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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On forum: 05/12/2007
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Saving Yurik

A lot of the Modders who were enthralled with SoC, starting working on it
in late 2007 and early 2008 prior to Clear Sky's release. The Dez0wave
team started with Priboi Story ( Vintar not involved ) that ( if you ever
played it ) was a huge influence on Call of Pripyat and GSC Game World
used many ideas from it. Priboi Story of course had many things in it
that were also used in Lost Alpha rather than the 2nd and 3rd game from
GSC Game World influencing Lost Alpha as it may appear as you mentioned.

One reason Clear Sky was disliked from the Modding Community was
the change in Game Play. It was too crowded, had too many people
running around, they didn't like the Faction Wars, didn't like the fetch
and defend quests and the tracking of mutants visible on the PDA. It
was decided early on to stick with SoC and expand that setting which
we all know was more popular as a single player immersion experience.

TS
  21:42:25  11 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I didn't play Priboi Story, so that is a piece of the equation that eludes me. Was thinking about giving it a shot post-LA, but the notion that I'd have to down-patch my install of SoC led me to play the unmodded game instead. I do intend to get to it someday, though.

All the reasons you named for modders disliking Clear Sky are part of my list of cons as well. Based on everything I've seen with Call or Chernobyl I'm fairly certain that it'll become the preferred modding platform from its release until whenever something more advanced comes out, if that ever even happens. Aside from the lack of story missions it really feels like a combination of all of the best attributes from each of the games, yet further refined in terms of A-Life randomness and combat behavior. If someone were to implement Lost Alpha's levels within CoC and then craft a compelling main story thread on top it would become the absolute pinnacle of all S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games.
  13:08:44  12 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/12/2015 13:09:40
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Prioboi Story is really worth looking into. My Game lasted over 6 months.
One thing you should really enjoy about it that no one else will tell you is
the level of manipulation you can do to alter the intended Game behavior.

TS
  17:53:14  12 September 2015
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Charcharo
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Clear Sky had many cons.

But also many pros. Much could be learned from it. Too bad LA team did not (neither did they from CoP).
  22:42:37  12 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Each of the games has their own individual set of pros and cons that should be fully explored by anyone seeking to create a new entry in the series that appeals to the overall fan-base. The openness and flexibility that I like so much about SoC's missions comes at the cost of them being fairly simplistic, which might turn off a player who prefers the more complex and story-driven nature of the missions in Clear Sky. And CoP seems to straddle the line between both of these and ends up coming off as a sort of "amusement park" of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.-y moments tied together by a fairly weak narrative, but also contains many of the best missions in the entire series. I'd love to see a new game that somehow manages to balance the best attributes from all three.
  10:21:01  13 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

That's the exact way I've thought of CoP too. The GSC Devs chose a
large assortment of actual places scattered all around the Exclusion
Zone and then brought them all together like an amusement park
where the rides are spaced about the area where you go from
ride to ride. Each ride is either a building, an anomaly or a
location where men and mutants gather for an activity.
Just like you mention some of the best times have
been meeting men and mutants in the spaces
between the rides where the A-Life shines.

TS
  22:58:00  13 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, CoP seems to really strive to give the player a neutral footing from which to approach every aspect of the game's missions. This is mostly a good idea, but it's taken to a point where this makes the world feel perhaps a bit too static and each non-random encounter too segmented from each other. Having the majority of bandits be neutral to the player is an area where I feel the game took this too far, as it makes little sense within the narrative that bandits would leave the Loner-disguised Degtyarev alone while attacking all others of his purported faction. Having at least some of the bandits turn hostile if the player chooses to work against Sultan (or vice-versa with Loners if the player opposes Beard) would've help to spice things up gameplay-wise, IMHO.
  00:26:02  14 September 2015
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Three Mile Island
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Message edited by:
Three Mile Island
09/14/2015 2:30:24
Messages: 3838

---QUOTATION---
Prioboi Story is really worth looking into.
---END QUOTATION---


Sad to say I didn't like anything about it. In fact I decided to stay away from LA when I learned that the same team was behind it too.
  01:40:49  14 September 2015
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Charcharo
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On forum: 06/23/2009
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If someone is to develop a STALKER game, they must sit down, and play all 3 games. ALl of them.

Only then can they make a STALKER game.
  02:31:30  14 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/14/2015 2:31:44
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Yes, that's the biggest hole in the logic of CoP in that the Bandits will
attack all Stalkers ( Loners ) found outside the Skadovsk or Yanov Station
except the Player. Clear Sky got around this somewhat by making the
Player a mercenary despite the fact Scar was rarely ever dressed as one.
However the two biggest things I like about Clear Sky & CoP is that the
Bandits are neutral. In Clear Sky the Player doesn't realize this if they
take the missions by the Stalker Trader in the Cordon or enter Garbage
with hostile Bandits guarding the entrances. I like how both the 3rd tier
SEVA suit upgrades can only be made by the Bandit Repair Tech. This
encourages replayability to get it right or try alternate Faction loyalties.

I think CoP is better served by letting the Player choose through the
different achievements. I really enjoy hanging out with the Stalkers or
Bandits or Freedom or Duty and not taking any side if I choose not to.
I guess the Player would have been better served as a Mercenary again
but as that was done in Clear Sky would not have been an original idea
again. The best compromise was to make him a Military Soldier in the
disguise as a Stalker. Perhaps since so many people want the Bandits
as enemies, a simple toggle switch to decide this in the Game Menu
would have let the Player decide before the Game started. However
this would have been sad for people not to figure out or to be able to
use the Diplomat achievement or give true meaning to "Man of Balance".

TS
  04:45:51  14 September 2015
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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Fighting zombified stalkers and mutants is fun and all, but keeping all of the respawning human enemies in Pripyat was a bit of a misstep that limited my enjoyment of freeplay beyond a short period of time. I'm certainly not one who minds having positive relations with bandits, but having even a small number of respawning hostile ones (or mercs or Monolith) late in the game could've greatly added to the replayability of the game and alleviated much of what myself and others find somewhat boring about it.
  06:39:33  14 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Free-play is not all that big of a deal as some people expect. If you play
a fast game and expect free-play to deliver additional content, you will
find that it is no different in Zaton and Jupiter if you had simply taken
your time like I do. The only real change is in Pripyat. This is mainly
due to the scripting of events once you get there. At first you can't
leave the level for a period and then events accelerate where you
are forced to do the evacuation. After that free-play is nothing
more than additional Mercenaries roaming the Pripyat level.

There's one building that is extremely dangerous to hang out in.
That's the "H" shaped middle school. In the southern section near
some stairwells, you can literally have Mercenaries or Zombies spawn
right in your face. They can happen so quickly and if you decide to linger
you will run out of ammo in no time. It's hard to find a safe place to
spend the night outside the Laundromat. My favorite place was
on the roof of the Kindergarten where you could observe all
the Zombies and Mercenaries prowling the city at night.

TS
  19:48:14  14 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I suppose all that I'm saying is that freeplay could have been a bigger deal with the simple addition of some respawning human enemies outside of Pripyat. I've spent some hours in the school where the mercs spawn in Pripyat and it is fairly exciting for a time, but is still another static location where some cool stuff happens. Traveling A-Life is what leads to novel experiences within the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, and a lack of this novelty is what can make CoP seem boring to me.
  21:56:07  14 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Agreed. Just a few more new tasks in each level. Think about how
much more fun it could have been simply to have let Freedom & Duty
go to Zaton and Pripyat. The one thing I always really wanted was the
ability to go in either direction through the Pripyat Underground on foot.

TS
  23:24:08  14 September 2015
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Charcharo
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More simple repeatable tasks, AI that patrols more (for example, seeing Stalker enter Jupiter after you went to Pripyat) and more, but reasonable spawns.
  03:04:39  15 September 2015
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Max Chill
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All of that does sound good, though I actually like the "unreasonable" spawns that happen every so often. It makes the Zone feel more dangerous to be walking along and then suddenly have a pack of twenty dogs rush out and try to make a meal of me. That's when the Eliminator really earns its keep.

And I will note that Call of Chernobyl does every single one of these things mentioned here as lacking from CoP, but with more factions, mutants, and areas.
  08:19:38  15 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I think CoP is the worst of the 3 Games for having spawns right in your
face. Sure it may be exciting to have to suddenly defend yourself but I
prefer the SoC method of spawns in another level ( for CoP that would
have been the other side of a level ) and having them travel to their
destination. This allows the Player to create dozens of variations to
the action. Look what I did with re-spawns in the Cordon, Garbage,
Yantar and Army Warehouses, where I created entirely new firefights
in places unrelated to the scripted locations that were never intended.

TS
  09:05:03  15 September 2015
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Charcharo
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---QUOTATION---
All of that does sound good, though I actually like the "unreasonable" spawns that happen every so often. It makes the Zone feel more dangerous to be walking along and then suddenly have a pack of twenty dogs rush out and try to make a meal of me. That's when the Eliminator really earns its keep.

And I will note that Call of Chernobyl does every single one of these things mentioned here as lacking from CoP, but with more factions, mutants, and areas.
---END QUOTATION---



It is not a problem of them spawning... it is a problem of it being in my face
I slaughter them... usually... but it is quite ... takes me out of the game.

As for CoC, I played a bit of the leaked Beta one... and it was not that impressive
Then again, I know it was just a beta for a reason. So I await to see the finished version.
  19:51:59  15 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, that is rather immersion breaking to have things just appear right before your eyes. It would've been preferable to have the A-Life spawn at the edges of the map and then move inward, but this would probably end up breaking some missions by putting important NPCs in danger. Spawning them in the middle of the level seems to be yet another of those "quick-and-dirty solutions" that generally leads to player dissatisfaction.

I could understand CoC being unimpressive if one were to go in expecting more than a freeplay mod, but what I really found impressive about it was the variety of spawns and how freely they move within the levels. This has lead to some of the best firefights and mutant battles that I've ever had in a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game. But like I've said before, the truly impressive moments will come when modders add story missions on top of its base game.
  21:31:27  15 September 2015
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Charcharo
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Well, it is possible to change spawn locations when player enters freeplay I guess.

As for CoC... I am kinda a spoiled sport. On the one hand it is unfinished and I am playing a leaked beta. On the other, vanilla it does not look all that great. I see some weapon balance things... I would have done differently. More balanced you see.
I also would really have liked some of Lost Alpha's maps (with some changes to be more user friendly) to have made it in. Pripyat Outskirts and Darscape are my favs .

And I am unsure what engine this is. Seems to be based on CoP engine, true. But it is standalone... also seems to lack smart covers (I am unsure here) and some of LA's cool tweaks (grass shadows).
  22:12:54  15 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

That is the big question about CoP. Do men and mutants that spawn
right in front of you seemingly to drop out of the sky, appear for the
first time in the game in on-line mode? Or was there some travel
involved like in SoC where they were traveling off-line and then
switched to on-line once in range of the Player? Saying that
if they were farther away and could hurt important NPCs
when traveling would be no different than being in
off-line mode like SoC. Regardless, I just think
a little farther away would help greatly.

TS
  22:37:29  15 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I'm fairly certain that they're spawning instead of switching online in many of these situations because I've witnessed them appear right next to a position where I was standing still. If they were only changing states then they should appear at the edge of the switch distance like as seen in SoC. And any potential problems with them hurting important NPCs while traveling would come into play if the player's proximity brought them online near said NPCs (like what can happen when zombified stalkers walk near the checkpoint held by Jack's gang).
  22:45:41  15 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Yes, I don't think they are in off-line mode either. The only time I think
that is happening is when Blowouts happen. I'll watch NPCs run off in
a different direction than me, and they are headed to where there is no
safety. I know they are not going to make it. However I don't always
find their bodies where I think they should have fallen. Sometimes I'll
find them later still alive near another location where I think they were
saved by going off-line and appearing later on-line near a safe place.

I've also been standing in a safe place as an emission is commencing
and suddenly have NPCs drop out of the sky directly in front of me at
that same shelter. They are often NPCs I have met before and not new.

TS
  23:03:02  15 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I remember seeing NPCs appear around Yanov Station on more than one occasion. There probably is some form of teleportation with existing NPCs that's similar to what can be seen in SoC's Twilight Zones. And I only ever recall finding stalkers who were killed by emissions within a radius of my position that would fall within the online switch distance, so they most likely are immune to the damage of emissions while offline.
  00:18:34  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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They dont die in offline

Anyways, CoP is not perfect . But I love the way they handled its UI. This is something ALL games must learn from.

*Including bloated UI simulator Witcher 3.
  04:19:31  16 September 2015
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Max Chill
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They did a very nice job with streamlining the UI in CoP. Pity that the PDA doesn't give nearly as much information as SoC, though. I always miss the ranking system when I play the later games, along with seeing the kill stats and list of completed missions.

I dabbled a bit with the first Witcher but was never able to find much enjoyment in the combat. It's one I've always been meaning to return to as it sounds like an interesting series, but RPGs are usually so time consuming. Anymore I hardly play anything outside of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
  08:49:54  16 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

That's what usually happens to me. I try another game and the combat
sucks, the HUD is horrible, there's too much chatter and clutter in my view.

TS
  09:26:04  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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What I like about the UI in STALKER is that it can be EXTREMELY fast to navigate, unlike many other games.

Simple, logical, fast and generally very well done. A few minor tweaks and you have a perfect (function-wise) UI for the type of game STALKER is.

Yes, the perfect PDA for me would be some amalgamation of the SoC, CoP, CS and LA one.


Seriously, open world game devs, just copy this system...


---QUOTATION---
They did a very nice job with streamlining the UI in CoP. Pity that the PDA doesn't give nearly as much information as SoC, though. I always miss the ranking system when I play the later games, along with seeing the kill stats and list of completed missions.

I dabbled a bit with the first Witcher but was never able to find much enjoyment in the combat. It's one I've always been meaning to return to as it sounds like an interesting series, but RPGs are usually so time consuming. Anymore I hardly play anything outside of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
---END QUOTATION---



Dont start with the games. Dont be a pleb .
Start with the books and then play Witcher. As God intended it to be.

As for the combat... Witcher 3 has a much different, much better combat system. Though there are people that like Witcher 1 combat... I am not one of them, but they do exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYwe_WHARdc

This is good propaganda from Witcher I guess

It also has a modified Bulgarian wedding song... used as a combat song. Was so awesome when I heard it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i5vVK662GQ&feature=iv&src_vid=Mez7zaB6PoY&annotation_id=annotation_3640931273
  14:45:31  16 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Charcharo~

I applaud your interest and love of the Witcher Games but do understand
I'm just not into sword and sorcery gaming. No doubt that it is extremely
popular, in addition to World of Warcraft, Skyrim and the LOTR type games
that are on the market. I like guns and modern conveniences. Sure I know
there are lots of combat games fighting Nazis, Muslims, and various other
groups from history or current events but I like the Stalker Games since
they have more of a survival element than military combat. I like the idea
of grabbing a backpack full of gear, a rifle and setting off in a world that is
in an apocalyptic type setting or one where you are dealing with wildlife or
men like yourself who can become an ally or foe depending on their motives.

TS
  14:59:31  16 September 2015
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Charcharo
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Well, all those other games dont quite interest me as much as their focus is different... and more symplistic. I fell in love with a dysfunctional family and Eastern European fantasy world in the Witcher, that is why I like it.
Or part of the many reasons that is. As a game it reminds me of STALKER at times... and quite a bit.

Though my comment was not aimed at you Tejas, but Max
  20:50:14  16 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I had no idea that it was based on a book series when I first tried the game, as it's still somewhat obscure here in the U.S. and I've never read much "sword and sorcery" Fantasy outside of Tolkien and ASoIaF. The story has always sounded like one of the more interesting aspects of the series so I likely will give The Last Wish a read before attempting to get into the games again.
  00:24:23  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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Yes. Though now, The Last Wish is a new york times bestseller

Do go at it. I hope the translation is good
  01:56:19  17 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Touché. Though I can't say I've ever really kept up much with sales charts, but it's cool that the series has become so popular over here. I think I will pick it up soon as I need something new to read.
  03:31:58  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

When I was younger I read a great deal of Science Fiction & Fantasy,
enjoyed movies about Science Fiction & Fantasy but just never found
many Games that brought the same thrill and level of enjoyment on the
PC. While I have always enjoyed History & Military History, I do admit
that the Stalker Games have shifted my interests in books, movies and
Games to be more in the Survival genre and Post Apocalyptic settings.

TS
  04:59:15  17 September 2015
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Max Chill
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I've been fairly obsessed with post apocalyptic scenarios since childhood, having grown up watching and reading a lot of "age inappropriate" material. Sci-Fi and Horror are the main genres that I go for, but basically anything that's well constructed or at least has an interesting premise will do (especially if it contains a bit of the old ultraviolence). As far as games go I'll play pretty much any title that has good gameplay and at least poses some form of challenge, though my tastes tend toward the old-school more than the current generation of games.
  08:36:28  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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STALKER has more in common with "Westerns" (Klondike Gold Rush being a main theme) than post apocalypse tales
  09:47:10  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I have no idea what you mean with your last statement. Most Westerns
in movies, TV shows and books had little to do with the actual Gold Rush
and the one that you mention "Klondike" actually took place up in Canada.

TS
  10:24:43  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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I dun goofed my sentence like a moron

What I meant was to say that STALKER really reminds me more of a "Western" in a sense combined with the themes classically associated to the Klondike Gold Rush.

Not really an apocalyptic tale.

The stalkers themselves say it often enough

And both genres/story types were very popular in the USSR and post-USSR space when most of GSC was born/started work.
  11:33:45  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I think I know what you mean now. Once the Artifacts were discovered
in the Zone, people rushing in to get them were similar to the Gold Rush.

TS
  11:37:51  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

I think I know what you mean now. Once the Artifacts were discovered
in the Zone, people rushing in to get them were similar to the Gold Rush.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



A core theme of the games is that people went mad at these artifacts ... even without the C-Consciousness or the Brain Scorcher. Whose very existence is based on us humans being mad as all hell.

The Klondike Gold Rush... madness.

I love how deep GSC went with this.
  20:39:22  17 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Films and books of the Western genre are typically set during the aftermath of the surge of Western expansion brought about by the California Gold Rush. The Klondike Gold Rush isn't a common theme at all within the genre ( or else we'd probably call those "Northwesterns" ), nor is the actual mining of gold. It's mostly tales of wandering gunfighters and bounty hunters traveling through the lawless regions of the American Western frontier in search of fortune or revenge.

The S.TA.L.K.E.R. series definitely does draw some inspiration from Westerns, just as it does with Sci-Fi, Horror, Crime, and War-themed material. And as the area within the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone experienced a sort of localized nuclear apocalypse it can most certainly be said to incorporate elements of the Post-Apocalyptic subgenre as well (not to mention all of the radiation, mutants, and hoarding of supplies). It's the blending of all of these various genres within such an iconic environment that truly makes it the coolest setting that's ever been devised for any game.
  22:24:16  17 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

That's what I like about the entire Zone. The Post-Apocalyptic feel of
an abandoned world. Empty houses and buildings that are crumbling
and in decay. Scattered cars and other equipment left behind. Things
left to the elements where weather, time and exposure eat away all.

No spaceships, armored vehicles or laser guns. Just an AK, a little ammo
and other supplies and you are off on your own. You go the wrong way
or get yourself in a jam and you're going to die. There is no cavalry to
the rescue if things go bad. No one is going to recover your corpse.

TS
  23:56:25  17 September 2015
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Charcharo
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Generally I identify a few key inspirations:

1. Roadside Picnic.
2. The real world Chernobyl Meltdown.
3. Stalker (Tarkovsky).
4. Klondike Gold Rush historical event.
5. Solaris.
6. Cheesy B-movie tropes/jokes about Soviet Union
7. The real decay of a dead empire.
  20:18:13  18 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Let's not forget that GSC's Venom: Codename Outbreak was a huge influence.

TS
  21:52:30  18 September 2015
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Max Chill
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The various Soviet secret military experiments and theories surrounding them no doubt played a huge role as well, especially stuff like the notion of the Duga-3 radar array being used for mind control experiments.
  08:40:38  19 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Yes, what really makes the Stalker Games shine is the underground levels.
Sadly GSC made bad decisions in CS & CoP that those would be one-way
one-time trips. In SoC the Player can return to the underground at any time.

TS
  21:19:08  19 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, the infiltration the labs is one of the superior aspects of the series. Aside from the awesome atmosphere they also serve as an example of what the games do when they're at their best; Giving the player a simple objective and then allowing them to devise their own methods of overcoming the hazards of the environment to achieve this objective. There's good reason why they're pretty much universally loved by the entire fanbase.
  00:54:24  20 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Lost Alpha has some really large underground levels and I like how some were
used to show flashbacks of earlier events. Of course the biggest LA gem is the
Pripyat Underground, created by GSC but never fully used in any of the games.

TS
  02:34:17  20 September 2015
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Max Chill
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It is indeed a great level, though I recall expecting a lot more danger than was actually found within. And that scene in X-18 that shows the Sin dudes being transformed into Bloodsuckers via some magical electro-pods was incredibly lame and unnecessary, whether it was in an old design doc or not. It would've been better to simply find out the Sin/Bloodsucker connection via a found document. But then again, I'm admittedly a guy who mostly despises unskippable cut-scenes in games.
  03:28:40  20 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I never liked the idea that a person was changed into a Bloodsucker.
To me that was something else entirely developed since it did not have
the appearance of a mutated dog, pig or boar where you knew the source.
In fact the only creature I ever had the impression that came from a man
was the Controller ( developed in the lab ) or a Snork that was more like
a wild, crazy person that the Zone created through madness, radiation
and exposure to other elements. Granted the Bloodsucker has two
arms and two legs, I just assumed it was a creation more like a
Poltergeist or Pseudogiant where science spawned it's life.

TS
  03:37:18  20 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Yeah, I always saw the Bloodsuckers as being more the product of gene-splicing experiments where they were grown in a lab as opposed to just being some unfortunate test subjects who were injected with a potion and then zapped with a magical ray.
  05:24:43  20 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

The idea behind Sin was a shallow plot that doesn't stand close scrutiny.
Just because someone knows game code doesn't make them a story teller.

TS
  06:35:13  20 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Indeed. My overall feeling while playing it was that much of the story was an attempt to string together a bunch of shoehorned-in bits that were excised from SoC during it's development. And that the person who was doing this didn't really care much about creating a satisfying narrative with fun gameplay so much as they did hitting a series of beats from the original outline. And that in-engine cut-scenes should not be attempted unless a very talented animator is involved.
  09:14:13  20 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

What's funny is that when each of the Stalker Games came out there
were loud complaints about the storyline and endings. Here we all are
several years later still playing the Games. None of us are playing any
of the Games for the story or ending. It is the action in getting there.

TS
  09:19:08  20 September 2015
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Audioave10
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As an FPS game, I always thought Stalker SHOC had one of the best stories in gaming. Chernobyl was "real", and I remember it well when it happened.
  09:41:01  20 September 2015
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Charcharo
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

What's funny is that when each of the Stalker Games came out there
were loud complaints about the storyline and endings. Here we all are
several years later still playing the Games. None of us are playing any
of the Games for the story or ending. It is the action in getting there.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Those were mostly from idiots.
  20:19:00  20 September 2015
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Max Chill
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As far as games go I think the series overall has a great story. The cut-scenes are interesting to watch and well-made (especially the ones in SoC). And best of all, they're placed well within the gameplay. Aside from those that play at the beginning and endings of the games, they tend to occur once the player reaches their objective (aside from those stupid flyover scenes in SoC that most people dislike). LA commits the cardinal sin of placing scenes right in the middle of gameplay way too many times, which in general is a poor design choice that's rarely ever anything but annoying for the player. And worst of all they're unskippable, which means if you wind up replaying the sequence then you have to listen to the same dumb expository dialogue and watch the same stilted animation every single time you go through it. And that shit blows.
  04:32:12  21 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

The more I am hearing you critique LA, the more I am anxious to get
back to it so see what the final patch has done. I've never gone all the
way from the beginning to the end since the post leak version came out.
As mentioned when I started the 1.3001 I didn't get far when the 1.3002
came out and I had to start over. I started the 1.3002 and didn't get far
when the 1.3003 came out. After that, and 2 years of being a Tester, I
was burned out on starting over. I decided to take a break and wait
for the patches to stop coming out. Little did I know that was last.

TS
  05:43:12  21 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Well, I'll try not to spoil any more of it for you. It'll be interesting to read your take on the current state of things.
  06:18:10  21 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

I don't mind you spoiling things since I've probably already seen the major
stuff in Testing and the minor new changes I'll then know what to expect.

TS
  19:46:27  21 September 2015
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Max Chill
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Glad to hear that. Still, I'll probably (mostly) stop bitching about the various aspects of the game that I don't care for because there's already plenty of that going around, and it doesn't sound like any of the story stuff is likely to change for the DC.
  03:42:26  11 October 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
10/11/2015 6:10:06
Messages: 661
http://i.imgur.com/l6PFglK.jpg

and

http://i.imgur.com/yzoX70a.jpg
  10:17:55  11 October 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Man, that first picture has to be one of the greatest things I have seen
that someone has done in SoC in many years. That's the perfect location
for them since that's a place that you can keep them alive there forever:
http://i.imgur.com/l6PFglK.jpg

TS
  22:07:27  11 October 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Man, that first picture has to be one of the greatest things I have seen
that someone has done in SoC in many years. That's the perfect location
for them since that's a place that you can keep them alive there forever:
http://i.imgur.com/l6PFglK.jpg

TS
---END QUOTATION---


I thought you might like that one, considering how we had discussed this as being the best possible destination for the trenchcoat Loners. It occurred to me yesterday that there was still one option in the Yurik event that I had yet to explore, an act of pure (virtual) evil that goes against the very title of this thread. The following video shows what steps are necessary to ensure my demonstrated outcome: https://youtu.be/cG-Q0Gv1Nxk
  23:50:45  11 October 2015
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bdoomed
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Man, that first picture has to be one of the greatest things I have seen
that someone has done in SoC in many years. That's the perfect location
for them since that's a place that you can keep them alive there forever:
http://i.imgur.com/l6PFglK.jpg

TS
I thought you might like that one, considering how we had discussed this as being the best possible destination for the trenchcoat Loners. It occurred to me yesterday that there was still one option in the Yurik event that I had yet to explore, an act of pure (virtual) evil that goes against the very title of this thread. The following video shows what steps are necessary to ensure my demonstrated outcome: https://youtu.be/cG-Q0Gv1Nxk
---END QUOTATION---



Fantastic!
So much good ideas here to play with the AI
  00:28:00  12 October 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---

Fantastic!
So much good ideas here to play with the AI
---END QUOTATION---


Glad you liked it! This scenario is indeed quite fun to play around with, and I still have a few ideas left for further manipulation of the AI behavior. Will post the results here if they pan out.
  08:01:03  12 October 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Another great example of you don't have to reprogram the game ( Mod ) to
get it to behave or do something entirely different. You simply have to think
outside the box to get the game to behave differently based on your actions.
Anyone can create or use a Mod. Few take the time to do things such as this.

TS
  00:06:57  13 October 2015
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
10/13/2015 0:11:31
Messages: 661

---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Another great example of you don't have to reprogram the game ( Mod ) to
get it to behave or do something entirely different. You simply have to think
outside the box to get the game to behave differently based on your actions.
Anyone can create or use a Mod. Few take the time to do things such as this.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


That's definitely a part of what makes this my favorite game, the fact that I can come up with weird ideas like this and have them actually work.

When I came to the realization that simply killing Yurik was the one outcome that I hadn't explored in this scenario, it also occurred to me that if done before completing any missions the trenchcoat Loners would enter "wander mode" because they wouldn't have anywhere to go. And that's exactly what happened, they immediately began wandering off in seemingly random directions, but were still tied to their starting point and would return to that area if I left and then re-entered the Garbage. So naturally I decided to see where I could make them to go by completing missions that open new Loner camps.

Killing the bandits at the train hangar and then talking to Seriy is probably the best option, because I was then able to go back to the Cordon and complete every single mission leading up to its usual point in the game with no negative repercussions for doing this part out of order. At first I thought I might miss out on getting credit for meeting with Seriy, but it showed up on my completed missions as soon as I spoke with Fox about Strelok. I was also able to complete Bes' mission and receive the his reward in its usual place within the sequence, which is cool because in previous times where I had done the Cordon missions prior to completing Seriy's mission before Bes' the former had superseded the latter. This means that there's really no reason not to do this before beginning the story missions outside of the distasteful act of killing Yurik.

The three false bandits are all but guaranteed to end up in or near the hangar if you do this in the exact way that I did. There's still a bit of randomness to how they're assigned and they may end up at the bus stop outside the hangar, but this would also be a fairly good spot for keeping them alive (outside of the occasional collision deaths that can occur there). All in all it's a fun little gimmick for anyone who wants to keep these three weirdos around and don't mind getting their hands dirty in order to do so.
http://i.imgur.com/S1YNubM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FJaKgkT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/06518mp.jpg

I also found that I could get them to move to the some of the camps in the Cordon by completing Agropom missions after skipping all of the early stuff and then killing Yurik without triggering them, but I'm still exploring this one a bit.
http://i.imgur.com/bAOpYH2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/f19z1Oi.jpg
  05:41:10  17 October 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

This is all quite fascinating to me to get the Game to behave in ways
that probably GSC never imagined. The biggest mystery of all is why
GSC made them neutral Loners instead of Bandits like they are dressed.
There's just no reason for it since like you pointed on, entering their space
makes them hostile, shooting at them or injuring Yurik makes them go
hostile. Only the clean kill shot to Yurik's head breaks them of their spell
other than fleeing the area and escaping before anything happens to Yurik.

All the outcomes you show will lead to eventual deaths for the trench coat
Loners except the task of the dual guards outside the hangers. I've been
able to keep those two alive for almost a year. Maybe guarding the back
wall is another one but I did lose one of the two back there in my current
Game. I would love to do this as you have done and enjoy their presence.

TS
  02:28:11  18 October 2015
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

This is all quite fascinating to me to get the Game to behave in ways
that probably GSC never imagined. The biggest mystery of all is why
GSC made them neutral Loners instead of Bandits like they are dressed.
There's just no reason for it since like you pointed on, entering their space
makes them hostile, shooting at them or injuring Yurik makes them go
hostile. Only the clean kill shot to Yurik's head breaks them of their spell
other than fleeing the area and escaping before anything happens to Yurik.

All the outcomes you show will lead to eventual deaths for the trench coat
Loners except the task of the dual guards outside the hangers. I've been
able to keep those two alive for almost a year. Maybe guarding the back
wall is another one but I did lose one of the two back there in my current
Game. I would love to do this as you have done and enjoy their presence.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


It seems to me that these "bandits" were designated as Loners in order to have them hold-up Yurik for a time before simply murdering him. True bandits aren't that patient around enemies, and it probably would've been more difficult to script them into being so rather than just making them Loners instead. Which is probably also why the "bandits" who attack Spartacus' group at the Shevchenko in CoP aren't true bandits either. Perhaps something interesting could be done with them as well.

So getting back to saving Yurik, I found that I could also have him move to one of the spots guarding the door at the train hangar by quickly completing Seriy's mission immediately after killing all eight bandits who attack the scrapyard and then completing Bes' mission, thus bypassing the scripted attack on Yurik once again before having done anything in the Cordon. I was then able to complete all preceding Cordon mission with no negative repercussions for doing the two Garbage camp defense quests out-of-sequence. The trenchcoat Loners joined Bes' deadly camp, and Yurik had finally found true safety.
http://i.imgur.com/zXJZZRl.jpg
  23:56:12  18 October 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

That sounds like a reasonable explanation as to why they were made
Loners so they don't immediately kill Yurik, however there is also the
Bandit in the Stalker suit. He doesn't immediately attack the Player
but instead waves and acts like neutral NPC. I guess I would like to
study that scenario more to see if he does this out of Mini-Map range
or does he go from yellow to red if the Player gets close enough to him.

I don't think it's too difficult to script as we see other examples like in
the Military at the Cordon railroad bridge are enemies "red" but do not
immediately attack the Player if you approach the Major to give a bribe.
These soldiers are able to contain their behavior towards the Player so
I can't imagine it would be that much more difficult towards another NPC.
It might be the reverse where they were made neutral Loners not for the
sake of Yurik but for the Player so they would appear as neutrals on the
Mini-Map, before the Player visually saw them for the shock value of that
when the Player came around the vehicles and saw them look like Bandits.

Knuckle's group of Loners aboard the Skadovsk is another mystery. They
appear as neutral Loners for several variable missions until they earn the
right to join the Bandits after the Morgan mission at the forestry. As the
Bandits appear as neutrals in the Game, there is no need to make them
Loners to control their behavior so again that is one that is questionable.
I've actually experimented with many of the hostile NPCs in Call of Pripyat.
I've been able to get a hostile Tuna and his men go from "red" to neutral
"yellow" and some of the hostile scripted Bandits change to neutral once
the task has been eliminated. The only ones I could not are the ones near
the Jupiter Plant. I am able to complete my self-appointed task of not
killing any Bandits by letting other NPCs and/or mutants do that for me.

That would be funny to get Yurik on one side and a trench coat Loner on
the other side guarding the hanger in Garbage. Get the two other trench
coat Loners on the catwalk in the back would be perfect. The irony of the
Bandits repeating their attacks on the hanger while they look up and see
two trench coat dressed NPCs would be funny. It wasn't until the 3rd
Game that the Player could wear one and then it was made worthless
as such by a crappy no-artifact-slots upgrade system. Too little too late.

TS
  21:03:50  20 October 2015
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Max Chill
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I was hoping to find a way to get Yurik and the Trenchcoats to move to the hangar together, but that outcome would be an incredibly difficult thing to achieve. I won't say that it's impossible since the element of randomness as to how camps are chosen could somehow put them all there together, but I can't think of any surefire way to do it like my methods for getting either there independently.

That is a good point regarding the Cordon bridge military and the Stalker suit bandit. I've studied that bandit a bit and he does appear as red if you place the cursor over him from far away. He maintains his initial scripted behavior until you get within a certain range of him, at about the point in which he appears on the radar. I like to take out his backup at the Flea Market and then wound him for real, after which he seems to stick to the general area where you find the group of bandits after X-18. I'll try to keep him alive longer next time, as he might move on to other camps after that smart terrain is deactivated.

The thing I find most interesting about the Yurik event is how directly it's tied to Bes' mission and the lives of the eight bandits who attack the vehicle graveyard. I've found that you can technically complete Bes' mission while one or more of those eight bandits is merely wounded, but if you approach him to complete it without the entire group being dead the attack on Yurik will trigger. Since you don't ever really see NPCs from the same faction attacking each other elsewhere in the game I can't help but wonder if the trenchcoat Loners' hostility toward the raiding bandits is being directed at Yurik by the scripting of the event.
  22:21:33  22 October 2015
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
10/22/2015 22:21:52
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Yes, all this makes one really wonder why there are the complexities that
we find. Most people as we know, simply kill the trench coats based on
visual identification and PDA prompts and never give it any more thought.
Mention to them to go back and search the perma-body ( another mystery )
trench coats and tell them they're Loners, and they are in disbelief about that.

We find Snitch and another Loner wearing a trench coat inside the 100 Rads Bar
yet no backstory or explanation is given as to their choices of armor they wear.
I guess if it was more common, people would kill them out in the open from a
distance before realizing they weren't actually Bandits. I've been guilty of killing
a Loner in a simple leather jacket from a distance in bad weather, mistaking
them for a Bandit in their simple leather jacket in poor lighting conditions.

TS
  19:52:51  3 November 2015
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Yes, all this makes one really wonder why there are the complexities that
we find. Most people as we know, simply kill the trench coats based on
visual identification and PDA prompts and never give it any more thought.
Mention to them to go back and search the perma-body ( another mystery )
trench coats and tell them they're Loners, and they are in disbelief about that.

We find Snitch and another Loner wearing a trench coat inside the 100 Rads Bar
yet no backstory or explanation is given as to their choices of armor they wear.
I guess if it was more common, people would kill them out in the open from a
distance before realizing they weren't actually Bandits. I've been guilty of killing
a Loner in a simple leather jacket from a distance in bad weather, mistaking
them for a Bandit in their simple leather jacket in poor lighting conditions.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


I can usually tell bandit from Loner at long ranges in SoC simply by how they walk. Bandits have a certain swagger in their step, while Loners have a more stiff and upright sort of gait. The little audio cues that you often hear as they move along help as well.

The perma-bodies don't seem all that mysterious to me anymore. Some are decorative or serve to facilitate mission objectives. The early unique NPCs stick around post-mortem seemingly so that the player can find the bodies of dead recognizable NPCs later in the game. And the random NPCs that don't despawn after death appear to serve as placeholders in smart terrains so that other randoms don't join the camps that they're associated with. That's my take on them, anyway.
  22:10:58  3 November 2015
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Steelyglint
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Message edited by:
Steelyglint
11/03/2015 22:11:51
Messages: 5171
Taking enemies out at a distance, and knowing that they ARE enemies, is the purpose of the red change in the reticule. I really dislike 'accidents' and will reload an earlier save if I kill a friend or neutral. That's the 'time-travel' cure for such guilt. Another would be a modern SF device - the implant that holds a copy of your mind, is constantly updated, and can be extracted from an accidentally-made corpse and downloaded into a new body/drone/android - resurrection without the necessity of being the son of god. Sadly, GSC don't offer this option.

And the 'hoodies and sports trousers' bandits walk like they've recently discovered the 'delights' of diarrhoea at just the time they got a knot in the drawstring of their 'sports trousers'.

The bandits who hold Yurik up ARE loners, but are embarking on a new career. Until you've actually completed your first act of banditry you aren't a bandit - or I could claim to be the Prime Minister, I just haven't been elected yet.

It would appear to be the same way with the group in CoP. From what dialogue you get from the poison dwarf sitting next to Knuckles (Sultan) he's just starting out on his conquest of The Zone's criminal opportunities, so most if not all of his minions (or morons as Borov calls them in NS) are probably recent accomplices attracted from the pool of unluckier, bent and just plain psychopathic loners.

.
  23:47:24  5 November 2015
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Max Chill
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For a more S.T.A.L.K.E.R.-y sort of solution, perhaps the consciousness of the deceased could be transferred to the Noosphere via some kind of special artifact and then be implanted into another body. Or something.

I see the Bandit faction as being a sort of loose confederation of the various criminal gangs within the Zone. They're united in the common goal of robbing, killing, and conning non-Bandits for profit while (mostly) not killing each other, and wear their Bandit "uniforms" mainly so that they can recognize fellow members. So it's possible for the less scrupulous Loners and members of other factions to be considered bandits, but they're only actual Bandits if they join that particular group.

Your theory behind why the Bandits walk as they do would explain Sultan's general choice of location in the current version Call of Chernobyl. He's more of a toilet dwarf now, handing out decrees of death from atop his porcelain throne: http://i.imgur.com/gaPsSQo.jpg
  03:06:08  8 November 2015
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Audioave10
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Ha! That throne fits him nicely.
  04:30:26  10 November 2015
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Ha! That throne fits him nicely.

---END QUOTATION---


Indeed it does. And he can sit around on a toilet underneath my office pretending to be boss as much he likes while I have my run of the Zone and all its riches.
  21:37:47  20 August 2018
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Max Chill
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Message edited by:
Max Chill
08/21/2018 20:27:39
Messages: 661
Killing Yurik

New variation on an old trick:

https://i.imgur.com/KMCmQSM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KyErJaS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wg3fHok.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F0vCfkc.jpg

Similar setup as used when I directed the pseudo-bandits to the Garbage hangar, but this time I persuaded the military to free up a few slots in the Rookie Village.

Also got them over to Agroprom. At first just the one, but after performing a little "Zone voodoo" ceremony (https://i.imgur.com/9gl9ZFW.jpg) the whole crew showed up along with new friends:

https://i.imgur.com/VqDI70j.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Gm4fX7o.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JtZFi31.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ByOggzs.jpg
  01:00:05  22 August 2018
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Max Chill
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Killing Yurik

And now for the Grand Finale. This one is especially cool considering the role that's replaced:

https://i.imgur.com/2u9S37s.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JCKIIYp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lxvTwNU.jpg

Well, that about does it in terms of interesting camps they can be led to. I suppose Rostok would be possible as well, but it'd be a massive hassle due to lack of threats and sheer number of nearby wandering dudes waiting for jobs. Pretty neat how much variation can be found by Saving/Killing Yurik though.
  09:59:29  23 August 2018
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Max Chill

I'm never ceased to be amazed at all the magic you do with SoC. Just fantastic.

TS
  22:16:10  23 August 2018
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Max Chill
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---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Max Chill

I'm never ceased to be amazed at all the magic you do with SoC. Just fantastic.

TS
---END QUOTATION---


Thanks TS. It's all because of our initial convo on Yurik traveling between levels that I decided to go back to the unmodded game and mess around with ways to move NPCs into unusual camps through gameplay variations in the first place.

There are still many other places they could move to since Yurik and the pseudo-Bandits are capable of joining any camp that accepts Rookie Loners, but I think those last four that I demonstrated are probably the most interesting. Though there are a few other cool ones I can think of, but they're total longshots that would be absurdly difficult to pull off. Maybe in another three years I'll give them a go.
  00:57:24  5 September 2020
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Max Chill
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A slight deviation...

...from the preceding necro-jacked topic, but I'm pleased to report that another unique freak was freed from the gulag today (via gameplay in vanilla SoC).

https://i.imgur.com/mdHUv71.jpg

An explanation and some varied locations coming soon...
  01:38:21  6 September 2020
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Tejas Stalker
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Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/06/2020 1:39:45
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Max Chill:

---QUOTATION---
A slight deviation...

...from the preceding necro-jacked topic, but I'm pleased to report that another unique freak was freed from the gulag today (via gameplay in vanilla SoC).

https://i.imgur.com/mdHUv71.jpg

An explanation and some varied locations coming soon...

---END QUOTATION---



Max Chill

I'm going to assume you're talking about the Bandit with the gold ring and watch. He's not wearing a Trenchcoat, so he's not one of the three that attempt to rob Yurik. I'm trying to think where he could have come from otherwise. Are you ready to reveal the mystery?

TS
  04:47:12  6 September 2020
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Max Chill
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On forum: 04/28/2014
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---QUOTATION---
Shaving Yurik

Max Chill

I'm going to assume you're talking about the Bandit with the gold ring and watch. He's not wearing a Trenchcoat, so he's not one of the three that attempt to rob Yurik. I'm trying to think where he could have come from otherwise. Are you ready to reveal the mystery?

TS
---END QUOTATION---



That guy's just an ordinary bandit, TS. I still need to get a couple more locations, but I'll share one more that should give some clarity as to the surrounding circumstances.

https://i.imgur.com/VffBfsJ.jpg

In setting up this particular shot I also witnessed a third example of a mechanic unique to a certain kind of camp that I've touched on in some previous "tricks" ('Unlimited Sniper VLA' and 'Trenchcoat Loners in Mole's Group' specifically). Will elaborate upon that further in the post to come.
  06:42:30  7 September 2020
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Tejas Stalker
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Saving Yurik

Am I missing something? You're showing Loners and Bandits mixed together but that's not supposed to be happening in the Unmodded Game. Is that the point you are trying to make? That would truly be a great trick to discover.

TS
  00:14:13  8 September 2020
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Max Chill
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VIP stalker escorts in the Zone


---QUOTATION---
Saving Yurik

Am I missing something? You're showing Loners and Bandits mixed together but that's not supposed to be happening in the Unmodded Game. Is that the point you are trying to make? That would truly be a great trick to discover.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



Well now I wish it were actually something as profound as forging a sort of Loner/Bandit alliance instead of the simple trick that it is. But the "unique freak" I referred to earlier is nothing more than the inverse of the Trenchcoat Loner. He's the Stalker Suit Bandit: https://i.imgur.com/KWe4e8l.jpg

My initial thought in this was wondering what the result would be if I approached him after joining Freedom and becoming neutral to the Bandits. Turns out that he does become neutral as well, but then immediately switches back to hostile once the player gets within a few meters of him. https://i.imgur.com/QoGtQFz.jpg

Then I recalled that the general area in which he resides is later occupied by a group of regular Bandits, which would likely indicate a removal of the camp jobs that hold him and his Viper Sniper associate in their initial positions. So much as completing 'Respond to the call for help' sets Yurik and the pseudo-Bandits free by removing their little robbery routine, I set out to find what triggers this particular change.

Oh, and I did run to the AW and join Freedom first thing in my game. Pretty easy to do considering all of the free high-grade weaponry, armor, and artifacts found within the level.

So after that I played through up to the point of handing the Agroprom documents to Barkeep and witnessed this scene upon my return to the Garbage: https://i.imgur.com/A9u4BnT.jpg

He and the other Bandit had been freed from their scripted positions and were now displaying the telltale signs of "wander mode", glancing from side-to-side while wandering to seemingly random points on the map from a starting point near their original spot. This meant that I could do as I did with the Trenchcoat Loners and move them into various camps in other levels by creating vacancies. And so I did, managing to place him at locations in every level where low-ranking Bandits can be found.

Cordon:

https://i.imgur.com/4erhZOF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RgM9AvZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1sQE9Hw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YgsyhiW.jpg

Agroprom and its Underground:

https://i.imgur.com/nlVAddK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UQckWad.jpg

Dark Valley:

https://i.imgur.com/Nrd1P1F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kSk9Azh.jpg

All of these simply required the death of a previous occupant in order to initiate his movement to the camp, except for that last one. Even after a pseudodog fatally bit the original Bandit's nuts off at the camp outside of X18 my Stalker-suited friend was still wandering around the Garbage like a dumbass. Which reminded me that the Trenchcoat guys did the same at first when I was trying to get them into Mole's group, and how I remedied this by chucking the former occupant's corpses into a Vortex.

So I did the same in the DV and he suddenly decided that he would like to travel there after all. Based upon this, the above-mentioned thing with Mole's group, and that old trick where I made 'Purge the freedomers' repeatable by exploding Murk's buddies' bodies, it would seem that active "temporary" camps (ones that are used for singular game events and then later removed) can block respawns only so long as the original corpses still exist. Something to play around with later, I suppose.

And for the sake of staying at least somewhat on-topic, this was the scene at the derelict machinery scrapyard while I was endeavoring through most of this foolishness: https://i.imgur.com/rjTcgMX.jpg

So yeah. That's my trick.
  04:07:20  10 September 2020
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Tejas Stalker
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/10/2020 4:11:04
Messages: 29388
Saving Yurik

Max Chill

Wow. I didn't think this was as complicated as you revealed. It's funny how you and I talked about the Bandit in the Stalker suit years ago, wondering if there was something that could be done similar to your Yurik scenario. Mainly we talked about keeping him alive and why he was sometimes found dead ( mutants I think, if the Player brought the area online ) however I never expected the Freedom Faction angle.

With all the various locations you have sent him to, I can only imagine this is multiple variations on the same theme. It would be too hard to be a continuous single action in my mind, but if anyone could do it, it would be you. The hardest part I imagine would be avoiding him and his buddy, the whole area, before going off and doing other things. Which leads me to other questions.

Did you go to the Agroprom to get the documents to open the way to Rostok or did you glitch the gate and get through quicker? Did you go around Colonel Skull and avoid that whole scenario to get to the Freedom Base? Skip all the assassin jobs in the gully? I'm going to assume you did since the point was to do a Yurik scenario and not rack up PDA tasks.

One question on the Freedom Faction join, when you have to kill the Freedom Traitor, do you fail killing everyone or do you kill the Mercs but leave the Traitor alone? What's your best way to get that task to fail? I'm also going to assume you had to kill all of Duty once you arrived back in Garbage. Interesting to find out the vortex body removal applies to other areas. I don't think anyone has ever stumbled on the placement of many perma-bodies actually serving a dual-purpose like you discovered at the Bloodsucker Village. Quite ingenious of GSC to come up with that trick to provide dead bodies for effect and at the same time a means to control/limit other actions.

I barely comprehend the means necessary to get NPCs to move to other camps. Are you ( as a Freedom member ) killing neutral Bandits to create vacancies for your specific NPCs to relocate? Are you killing neutral Loners to ensure their safe passage? Your work transcends even playing a normal Game and doing the normal expected tasks. I just wish you could create videos to show your work. I'm going to assume you are still constrained by your older system.

Whether anyone else understands what you have done, I do... and I think it is just fantastic. I feel there is so much untapped potential in SoC that most people don't even realize or understand. Amazing that 13 years after the Game was released, there is still more to see that is beyond what GSC imagined anyone would try to unravel. Please keep up your great work. I'm your biggest fan.

TS
  01:04:26  11 September 2020
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Max Chill
Bandit Jesus 2.0
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/28/2014
 

Message edited by:
Max Chill
09/11/2020 1:05:49
Messages: 661
Saving Pavluha Rotten

I really appreciate that, especially since I likely would've just moved on to mods without bothering to share my alternate method for saving Yurik had I not found your writing on the unmodded games and started discussing it with you. Not to mention that most of the tricks that I've conceived of are inspired by convos we've had as well.

So as far as setting this one up goes...

I ran directly from Sid's bunker to the Rostok entrance (with only a quick detour to grab the PB1s from the boxcar near Tolik), pushed my way through the gate and made for the AW. Upon arrival (after saving and then going back to verify that Pahluha Rotten hadn't been chomped by mutants before my going through the AW missions) I ignored the scripted scene and went to grab the Wind of Freedom suit from the Farmhouse, put it on and then entered the Bloodsucker Village. Walked through Murk's camp and caught the attention of the 'sucker guarding the house with the Bulldog 6 before leading it to its doom at the hands of the Freedomers. Acquired the launcher and then made for the base.

After snagging the Vintar BC, 9x39mm SP5, and a Fireball for anti-rad I informed Lukash of Skull's group and then headed back to the farmhouse without even bothering to talk to Max. Posted up atop the building across from Silence and rained VOG-25 hell down on those bastards until they were no more. Collected their 9x39mm and then made my way back through Max's squad (who stayed lined up there until I joined the Svodoba ranks) and received my second assignment from Lukash which I was fully determined to fail to the best of my ability.

Did so in the funniest possible way (I just got close enough for the nearby pseudodog to come online and kill Pavlik) and then walked my sorry-ass on over to Cap. Got the job, climbed a tower, shot some weirdos in grey. Collected the spoils and went back to behold the magical dialogue box that transformed me into an anarchy-loving cannabis enthusiast.

Before heading back I considered how killing anyone in the Bar level would turn the Loners there against me in addition to Duty, and formulated a plan to avoid this. After crossing in front of the checkpoint to get their attention I lobbed an RGD-5 close enough to the Dutyers to get them to flee, but far away enough not kill them. This distracted them long enough for me to hop up and over into the Twilight Zone without catching a single bullet. Later on I found a way to get inside the Bar from the TZ without alerting Duty as well, which I intend to eventually make a short video demonstrating (as well as one with the full streamlined Freedom-joining sequence).

Killing the guards back at the Garbage outpost seemed like the best option, and the VSS made it very simple. After observing the target's reaction to my new designation I managed to play up through the Agroprom docs mission without killing any bandits by handing out better guns to relevant Loners who would use them ( those who weren't "sawed-off supremacists" ). Since I was focused solely on relocating the fake Loner I didn't bother with any optional missions.

Since camp assignments are essentially permanent (so long as the camp still exists), each of the various demonstrated outcomes were derived from a save created at this point in the sequence. All vacancies were created indirectly (Loners did the work in Cordon and Agroprom, a highly-motivated pseudodog cleared spots both DV camps, and in the AU I simply helped the Bandits to notice the bloodsuckers). As far as keeping him safe during transit I find that my absence is the best possible protection, so I pretty much just fucked off to someplace far enough away to keep him offline until he arrives.

I'm not exactly eager to do it all again for the sake of making a video, especially considering how much of the latter half involves loading saves to achieve desired random NPC combat outcomes and then waiting around in a safe location while he travels. Plus the videos I made about Yurik and his pals pretty much demonstrate the general principle anyway. But joining Freedom from the start would be worth showing, along with how to safely get through Rostok and to and from Barkeep. And when I finish that maybe I'll even make a new thread for once instead of just digging up some crusty old one like this.

Anyway, thanks for your kind words and continuing enthusiasm for my SoC shenanigans.
 
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