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[REL] Arsenal Mod

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  19:46:39  1 August 2008
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Rapier_21
(Senior)
 
On forum: 05/20/2007
Messages: 128
Okay guys...

Here's the thing on the 5.56x45 vs 5.45x39 vs 7.62x39mm debate.

The original, M153 5.56x45mm round, when coupled with a 20" 1/12 twist barrel (Say, out of an M-16A1), is an extremely effective round, because it has very reliable fragmenting and sufficient accuracy for a shoulde-fired arm.

Now, when you're talking about the US Military wanting to get away from the 5.56mm rounds, that's because of a whole different set of problems.

Specifically, it's because the standard issued M855/M856 Tracer 5.56x45mm ammo was designed to give optimum long-range preformance in the M-249 SAW. This was the driving force behind the M-16A2's barrel change from 1/12 twist to 1/7. 1/7 twist is a comprimise, between the 1/12 needed to stabilize the older, M153 round, and the ability to stabilize the newer, heavier (62 grains for the M855 vs the 52 grain M153) bullet. The 1/7 twist barrels are not particularly suited to either round, as they tend to over spin the rounds.

Now, what does that mean, game wise?

The M-855 round, (in game designated as the SS109, and yes I'm aware that there is in fact a difference between them) in game was never designed to fragment as well as the older M-153 round was.

Couple this with the barrel length of the weapon, as the 5.56x45mm's fragmenting ability is pretty much dictated by the velocity you can sling it at, and you out to be able to form some kind of idea about damage values. The LR-300, with it's stubby 14.5" barrel, is just barely going to allow the round to reach optimum velocity for fragmentation. (2700 feet per second is the magic number there). Most of the other rifles, like the SG-550, the L85A1, etc have 20" barrels which will offer very good preformance for the round.

5.45x39 is a whole different story. Rather than fragmenting like the 5.56x45mm does, the 5.45 has a hollow tip which causes it to form sort of a J/L shape, and it tumbles violently because of this. Also because of this, the 5.45x39mm round is not anywhere near as dependant on velocity to create wounds as the 5.56 is. What this means is that you can pretty much make all the 5.45 weapons do around the same damage, (which is what I usually do, minus the stubby AKSU). Now, where the 5.56x45 excells vs the other two rounds is in ARMOR PENETRATION. The SS109 is very good at going through bory armor, especially soft body armor. The 5.45 would come next, especially the AP versions.

Now, the 7.62x39 kind of stands out between the other two rounds. It's not designed to fragment, really at all. The massive damage it does is mostly due to the fact that it is a very fat, very slow (relatively speaking) round that just kind of screws up it's face, goes HURRRRRRRGGGGGGG and bodyslams it's way through things. It is very, very, very effective versus soft targets not wearing armor, or only light armor (ask the many deer I've slayed on the first shot with my SKS ) but that's about it. It has horrible armor penetration, but even if it doesn't penetrate, it still knocks you around. (I personally know a guy from my high school who got hit in his IBA armor 10(!) times, and none of the rounds penetrated the actual armor plate and hit him. He was still out of action, but that was more from broken ribs and such from transfered kenetic force. He said it was pretty much like somebody slugging him in the chest 10 times with a sledgehammer as hard as the could.)

tl;dr? 5.56x45 should have good armor penetration, but only decent damage, 5.45x39 should have somewhat better damage but less-than average armor penetration, and 7.62x39 should have the most damage of the three, but crappy armor penetration, and good knockback.

Damage isn't the only thing you can do with weapons though. On all my weapon mods I've done for myself, fire_dispersion gets set to 0.0. Why? Because I don't want the game artifically fudging my shots. There is practically nowhere in Stalker where you have a long enough line of sight for spread from most of the rifles to even come into play. (other than the AKSU and to a lesser extent, the LR-300). Weapon handling should be a major factor in how the weapons handle; how fast the crosshairs return to the base accuracy, the deviation between shots, (5.56x45/5.45x39 < 7.62x39, in this case) and all that.

By tweaking these values, you can have 5 or 6 different guns with about the same damage, and they will all behave differently.

That's how I usually do things; my AKSU-74 will have the best handling of the 5.45x39mm rifles, as it's the smallest and lightest of them, but it will have heavier recoil, and more spread per round than the other guns, thanks to it's stubby barrel. I also usually tweak it's firing sound up at least 75% louder than the other AK's.

The AKS-74 is the intermediate; it's not as handy as the AKSU is, but it has much better accuracy, the spread is lower, and due to being heavier the recoil from each shot is lower.

The AN-94 will be only silightly more accurate than the AKS-74, but due to it's somewhat improved ergonomics (Triangle folder stocks are not entirely comfortable) and heavier weight, it gets to be somewhat more accurate, have lower shot spread, especially noticable if you use it in automatic, and it has burst fire, which helps.

I try to go by these criteria when I tweak things.

Weight of weapon:
-Heavier = lower recoil, but increased turning time, somewhat slower to return to the zero point (point of best accuracy)
-Lighter = more recoil, but (in general) decreased turning time, and faster to return to zero point

Ergonomics and weapon layout:
-Less ergonomic weapons will tend to be slower to come back to their zero point, although this is not exclusively true. For example, my L85A1's tend to come back to zero very quickly, as most of the weight of the weapon is behild the trigger, but this also causes the muzzle rise to be much harsher than on a conventional weapon. This makes it very suited to single shot or short burst firing, but less suited to full-automatic fire.

Caliber:
-This ties in with the weight of the weapon, and somewhat with the ergonomics, to decide how the weapon handles. Another example would be the MP-5, which, being very light (relative to other guns), firing a low-recoil round, and being fairly ergonomic, has very good handling and low recoil, but due to the 9x19mm FMJ's extremely poor physical damage, the weapon overall does less-than average damage.

This makes the MP-5 good for spraying a target with a lot of lead very quickly, and it will come back to zero fast, but you're gonna have to hit him a lot (or in the face) to drop him.

I guess the trick is (and I've rambled on way too much here) is that damage alone should not dictate whether a weapon is good or not. All that other stuff, like do the crosshairs come back at 0.015, or 0.09? should dictate what weapon fits where.
  20:40:06  1 August 2008
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BobBQ
2007-2017
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 07/30/2007
Messages: 3336

---QUOTATION---
The downside is that not all skins are great. Most of them are just really really bad or unrealistic. Alot of the guns are pitch-black, you can't see any detail on them. At all. Even in real life, black guns are not this dark and unrecognizable. They seriously need to be lightened a little.

---END QUOTATION---


Strongly agreed. I also dislike how all the untouched weapon icons in the UI texture have been darkened to match this look.

That said, I love having so many options... If only I could finish merging them!
  20:43:10  1 August 2008
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drpop
(Novice)
 
On forum: 08/01/2008
Messages: 10
So I just re-installed STALKER to give this a try, and I'm getting some weird error that only seems to occur when I have this mod installed (and I've tried with both version 1.0004 & 1.0005). The game won't even start, it'll show the splash screen and then boot me to the desktop with the message "BugTrap detected a crash" etc. with this as the exception reason:

XR_3DA.exe caused BREAKPOINT in module "C:\Program Files\THQ\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl\bin\xrCore.dll" at 001B:001B7D15, xrDebug::backend()+165 byte(s)

If I remove the files from the Arsenal mod from the gamedata folder, it loads just fine. What I am doing wrong here?
  20:58:12  1 August 2008
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TristanYockell
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/03/2007
 

Message edited by:
TristanYockell
08/01/2008 20:59:06
Messages: 308

---QUOTATION---
So I just re-installed STALKER to give this a try, and I'm getting some weird error that only seems to occur when I have this mod installed (and I've tried with both version 1.0004 & 1.0005). The game won't even start, it'll show the splash screen and then boot me to the desktop with the message "BugTrap detected a crash" etc. with this as the exception reason:

XR_3DA.exe caused BREAKPOINT in module "C:\Program Files\THQ\S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl\bin\xrCore.dll" at 001B:001B7D15, xrDebug::backend()+165 byte(s)

If I remove the files from the Arsenal mod from the gamedata folder, it loads just fine. What I am doing wrong here?
---END QUOTATION---




Go to The config folder inside the gamedate folder and delete the file called Localization.ltx

Bingo, problem solved .
  21:02:11  1 August 2008
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Tugatoga
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 03/24/2008
Messages: 273
drpop you got mail

The crash you have is one I haven't seen you can try the files I've sent you but not sure if it will help.
  21:56:10  1 August 2008
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drpop
(Novice)
 
On forum: 08/01/2008
Messages: 10
Thanks a lot guys, that made it work. Now to get my hands on an Rk 95!
  22:12:21  1 August 2008
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Tugatoga
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 03/24/2008
 

Message edited by:
Tugatoga
08/01/2008 22:13:51
Messages: 273
If you guys are interested in obtaining all the weapons without leaving the Rookies camp wait an hour or two and I'll send the script file to whoever wants to try it.

I'm doing it for my own use, I'm about finished with the Assault rifles, I got side tracked and couldn't stop myself from trying them all out.

If you want to find them yourselves this would probably ruin any sense of surprise that you'll get for finding them on your own. You'll also need to start a new game.
  22:20:31  1 August 2008
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PLR
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/01/2007
Messages: 300

---QUOTATION---


Regarding accuracy though, the AK-47 series are generally less accurate due to the very poor quality of most 7.62x39 ammunition, especially surplus, not generally due to the rifle its self. I did not play a part in ammo values though so I will have to take a look.

I can take a look at it.

Also, do you give me permission to make my fixes on your wonderful work? I just want to make it a little better. If yo uwant, you can look over the finished product and see if you like it.

Like I said, I'll update the origins, impulses, damage, etc. I might leave the damage alone, but as I said, I want there to be barely any difference in damage between guns of the same caliber, to make it more realistic. Sadly, I can't make the damage of all calibers the SAME because that will unbalance the game, but there will be slight differences between let's say, a Walther P. 38 and a Bagira.

You can change the Damage levels and velocities of course based on the firearms particular barrel length.

It wont be much difference but It will be realistic.

Of course for example the AKS74U is going to loose around 400 FPS due to such a short barrel versus other 5.45x39mm chambered guns.

Hmm I may start messing with the values again as well, this has made me hungry.

Of course they will be strickly for my own use enless other wise allowed to share with select people.
---END QUOTATION---



I have already done this.
  23:25:27  1 August 2008
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Rapier_21
(Senior)
 
On forum: 05/20/2007
Messages: 128

---QUOTATION---
The downside is that not all skins are great. Most of them are just really really bad or unrealistic. Alot of the guns are pitch-black, you can't see any detail on them. At all. Even in real life, black guns are not this dark and unrecognizable. They seriously need to be lightened a little.

Strongly agreed. I also dislike how all the untouched weapon icons in the UI texture have been darkened to match this look.

That said, I love having so many options... If only I could finish merging them!
---END QUOTATION---

I think this has something to do with the way they merged the two .dds files; I think they overwrote the old alpha map.

PLR Yeah. A lot of my earlier work was based off the more comprehensive weapon mods.

It's taken me a long time to get where I am with it though; I started not long after the first weapon mods came out, for 1.001, and I've been tweaking them since.

Trying to give every gun some use, and not just fix the ones I like. Not the easiest task in the world. >.<

I've been meaning to try yours for a while, just hadn't gotten around to it.

Helps when you can play stalker more than once or twice a month.
  00:12:48  2 August 2008
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Tugatoga
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 03/24/2008
Messages: 273
I posted a fix on page 8 that suppose to fix crashes relating to Skinflint.
 
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