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S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Quest Overhaul Discussion Thread

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  00:57:16  10 November 2007
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11578
I hear that 1.0005 makes many changes to dialog_manager.script.
  01:50:23  10 November 2007
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Victim
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 05/21/2005
Messages: 1089
^ That's great!
  09:58:46  10 November 2007
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690
I thought at this point it might be a good idea to discuss my philosophy for this mod.

First of all, the idle_time parameter changes to the following quest types, i.e. the changes to how long the duration between being able to receive a mission another time after first completing it:


- Eliminate the camp
- Find the artifact
- Kill the stalker
- Find the monster part

I felt that it was ridiculous how you could kill the same sales representative, or fetch the same flesh eye for the same gourmet party five times. So, I decided to make them only available once. This move may initially seem like a bad idea; it drastically reduces the net amount of side quests you can complete, but at the same time, it gives the game world just a bit more credibility.

Secondly, I would like to discuss my decision to remove pop-up missions completely, excluding "Defend the camp" -type ones. It is (a) unrealistic and (b) inconvenient to receive a "Destroy the camp" -type quest each time you enter a new level. Take for example the "Destroy the bandits at the Agroprom", which you receive from Sid the first time you enter the Agroprom Underground; once you have completed it, you need to make a beeline back to the Cordon unless you want to fail the mission, not to mention that you didn't voluntarily undertake such an endeavor.

Third, there is the idle_time tweak for "Defend the camp" -type quests. This wasn't as much of a "principle change" as it was a convenience tweak.

Fourth, the decision to leave the "Defend the camp" -type quests alone with regards to their auto-quest nature: where a "kill the stalker" -type auto-quest makes little sense with regards to realism due to the quest-givers proximate absence, a "defend the camp" -type quest is very sensible to have as an auto-quest, since you are in fact responding to a call for help (which you don't actually hear in the case of side quests).

I hope the aforementioned helps clarify my motives a bit, and shed some light on my thoughts. Feedback is appreciated as always.
  11:05:57  10 November 2007
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690
@ barin, how are we going to go about restoring quests with missing spawn objects? You mentioned that you've managed to spawn some items via scripts, is that an optimal solution, or should the all.spawn file be considered? I'm no scripter, so I'm afraid there isn't much I could do even if I wanted to...


---QUOTATION---
Eliminate the bandits at the farmstead (originally the same target as "Protect stalkers at Agroprom" from Lukash)
---END QUOTATION---


I was under the impression that there was a missing spawn for this mission. The farmstead refers to the one at the Military Warehouses, correct?

---QUOTATION---
Find the foreigner's gun (i've created new desert eagle because if you fix Max reward then mission pointer might show Max insted of Freeman; need new game to spawn target desert eagle correctly inside Freeman's corpse or if i finally learn how to get npc object i will be able to replace old freeman pistol with the new one using script)
---END QUOTATION---


In my Extra Missions Mini Mod, I just simply changed the quest target to be Gordon's Big Ben, thinking that the only reason why the Barkeep would pay such a keen interest to Gordon's Desert Eagle is because it's enhanced in some way (and besides, I initially figured that the reason the devs put the Big Ben into the game was to poke fun at Half-Life, since the Desert Eagle in the HL series is, by popular opinion, very powerful, even excessively so). But I'm sure we can work something out.

---QUOTATION---
Find the modified Vintar (need spawn)
---END QUOTATION---


This guy should be spawned in the Red Forest, preferably somewhere you have to encounter enemies to get to it. Maybe spawn it into a corpse and place the corpse in the trailer uphill where the first sniper is located?

---QUOTATION---
Kill the stalker from the Monolith grouping (seems to be bugged - sometimes the target does not register as it should)
---END QUOTATION---


I take it this quest shouldn't be included then? After all - we don't want an unstable mod.

---QUOTATION---
Steal the sniper rifle (need spawn and reward; target = "Farshooter" SVDm 2 might be a problem if someone is using trader mod)
---END QUOTATION---


We can make multiple versions of the mod for compatibility with popular mods. I'm also currently considering some sort of a merge with NatVac's work, but I'm not sure if he'll approve of my philosophy.

---QUOTATION---
Obtain the modified Chaser 13 (need spawn and reward; again target = Combat Chaser might be a problem because task pointer might indicate at Father Diodor or at Secret stash of the Lucky One)
---END QUOTATION---


Hmm... We'll exclude this quest for now and work something out later.

---QUOTATION---
Kill Duty's security chief (Warrant Officer) (need reward)
- Kill Captain Ivantsov (need reward)
- Kill Colonel Petrenko (need reward)
- Kill the stalker called Barin (need reward)
- Kill the stalker called Sergeant Plichko (my own task, so it needs reward and description)
---END QUOTATION---


Sounds good. I'm sure we can work out the rewards.

---QUOTATION---
Destroy the bandits' base (original: Protect the bandits' base) (i've changed task's title)

still bugged (have to change task target or spawn it)
---END QUOTATION---


Bugged? I've enabled it in my Extra Missions Mini Mod and it worked just fine. All the bandits spawned and once I killed them all, I managed to successfully complete the task.

---QUOTATION---
Eliminate the snorks (target = yan_tonnel_snorks so i assume that those are snorks in the X16 tunnel; most of us probably kill them all during escape from X16 and because they are not spawning again - the task is bugged)
---END QUOTATION---


We'll leave this one alone for the time being then.

---QUOTATION---
Protect the security post of the Duty (random task; i'm not sure but i think init_condition is bugged and it would be rather hard to get a reward if you get this task before finishing X16)
---END QUOTATION---


... Which is why commenting out init_condition should make this quest work correctly. This goes against my quest philosophy of having defend the camp quests as auto-quests, but the exception fortifies the rule, right?
  13:07:01  10 November 2007
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690
@ all, I need some opinions here: currently, "Eliminate the camp" -style quests can only be completed once, but I'm not sure that's the best solution. I was thinking about maybe setting the idle_time to 5-10 days..? That way, you won't immediately be able to redo a quest, but it won't be a "once-in-a-lifetime" sort of thing either. After all, wiping out a bandit camp will eventually result in more bandits showing up, even if they don't show up after 24 hours.

The only negative consequence of this would be that if you find Wolf alive later in the game and you talk to him, you may encounter a "Destroy the boar lair" quest, which is actually the same one as you first complete for him in the Cordon. This is not a major bug however, and shouldn't get in the way of implementing this change. Opinions are welcome.
  18:47:07  10 November 2007
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
Messages: 1690
v0.2 has been released!

This is, once again, an alpha version. This time, quest-types from all quest-givers have undergone "the treatment".

http://rapidshare.com/files/68791631/S.T.A.L.K.E.R._Quest_Overhaul_v0.2__public_alpha_.zip.html
  08:32:41  14 November 2007
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barin
scripter
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 09/12/2007
Messages: 702
@ Decane:


---QUOTATION---
@ barin, how are we going to go about restoring quests with missing spawn objects? You mentioned that you've managed to spawn some items via scripts, is that an optimal solution, or should the all.spawn file be considered? I'm no scripter, so I'm afraid there isn't much I could do even if I wanted to...
---END QUOTATION---



Spawning via "all.spawn" needs new game to working. So i would rather spawn stuff via script. If you want i can tell you how to do this.


---QUOTATION---
Destroy the bandits' base (original: Protect the bandits' base) (i've changed task's title)

still bugged (have to change task target or spawn it)
Bugged? I've enabled it in my Extra Missions Mini Mod and it worked just fine. All the bandits spawned and once I killed them all, I managed to successfully complete the task.
---END QUOTATION---



i refered "still bugged" to Eliminate the snorks, not to Protect the bandits' base (which also works fine with my version)
  10:15:11  14 November 2007
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Storm Shadow
A machine, a Shadow Machine.
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 11/14/2007
Messages: 1420
10 Days

@Decane,
Hi Decane. I have recently started a new game with this as my task_manager, as it wasn't compatible with my previous saves. And I was using your Extra Quests Mini Mod before that. Does this one include all of the features of that mini mod?

Also, you must be aware of Azza's 10 day quest mod, right? the later versions of his mod included re-activating the cut-put quests as you have also done, and I had no problem merging it with your other mini mod. But the main thing he did was to change: 'time = 86400' to 'time = 864000' for all quests.
This simple change meant that you now have 10 days to complete a quest rather than one, much less annoying, which seams to be one of the things that you are trying to improve on. I must admit that when stalker first came out, I had just stopped playing oblivion and was horrified when I found that I had failed a quest simply because I hadn't yet returned for the reward!

I am using this with Alive 1.6 and it works fine, also I can confirm it does work with Patch 1.0005, I don't know if it's related but I needed to use NatVac's advice on the Alive Thread to get it working tho.

Are you also aware of how to get the Find Hunter's Rifle quest to actually be a Toz 34? As there is a thread on it somewhere, possible on Obliv Lost.

Good work so far.
  11:25:58  14 November 2007
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Jketiynu
Swartz
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/05/2007
Messages: 867

---QUOTATION---


Are you also aware of how to get the Find Hunter's Rifle quest to actually be a Toz 34? As there is a thread on it somewhere, possible on Obliv Lost.

---END QUOTATION---



The solution I came up with is to simply replace the modified desert eagle with hunters_toz in the all.spawn file (since it pretty much lays on the coordinates on where to find it), but that obviously could cause compatibility with other mods that modify the all.spawn. It seems like that's the best way to do it, unless someone knows how to change the location icon to somewhere else and then spawn the hunters_toz there via a script.
  19:58:20  14 November 2007
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Decane
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 04/04/2007
 

Message edited by:
Decane
11/14/2007 20:02:32
Messages: 1690
>>Spawning via "all.spawn" needs new game to working. So i would rather spawn stuff via script. If you want i can tell you how to do this.<<

Hey mate, thanks for the offer! Yeah, I'd love to know if you've got the patience to write down a small guide for me. Like I said, I don't have any previous scripting experience so it might take a while for me to feel nice and comfy with all of this.

>>i refered "still bugged" to Eliminate the snorks, not to Protect the bandits' base (which also works fine with my version)<<

Aah, that explains.

>>Hi Decane. I have recently started a new game with this as my task_manager, as it wasn't compatible with my previous saves. And I was using your Extra Quests Mini Mod before that. Does this one include all of the features of that mini mod?<<

Hmm...? Yeah, it includes all the features and more.. Should be compatible. I don't know what happened there.

>>Also, you must be aware of Azza's 10 day quest mod, right? the later versions of his mod included re-activating the cut-put quests as you have also done, and I had no problem merging it with your other mini mod. But the main thing he did was to change: 'time = 86400' to 'time = 864000' for all quests.
This simple change meant that you now have 10 days to complete a quest rather than one, much less annoying, which seams to be one of the things that you are trying to improve on. I must admit that when stalker first came out, I had just stopped playing oblivion and was horrified when I found that I had failed a quest simply because I hadn't yet returned for the reward!<<

Well, know that I have given much thought to changing the quest time limits, but ultimately decided not to touch them. Why I came to such a decision is a bit more complicated: First of all, when you accept a task (one of the main goals of this mod is to make the player's consent a requirement when it comes to receiving quests), you agree to complete it in the time limit which is mentioned (or in awfully many cases not mentioned) by the quest-giver. Well, imagine for example that you are doing a "find the artifact" -quest for Sid, who mentions that he needs to obtain the artifact quickly. It would not make sense to give the player 10 days time to obtain the artifact.

Secondly, I am currently considering the inclusion of the need_return parameter for many of the quests you typically need lots of time to complete (mainly the ones which require that you wipe out a camp and return). What this would mean in practice is that you could complete the quest without ever returning to the quest-giver! This solution has already been implemented successfully in NatVac's excellent Zone Reclamation Project (https://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_page=1&thm_id=11786&page=1&sort=ASC&sec_id=16).


>>Are you also aware of how to get the Find Hunter's Rifle quest to actually be a Toz 34? As there is a thread on it somewhere, possible on Obliv Lost.<<

Hmm... I suppose I could fix that one too.. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

@ all, I have agreed to merge this mod with ZRP. This does not however mean that I will cease support for this mod; it simply means that I have decided to pay more attention to compatibility issues, and since ZRP is arguably going to be the best thing since sliced bread and butter if NatVac continues as he has, it simply would not be wise to have it as incompatible. Also, since ZRP comes with a utility for managing parameters, you will no longer have to settle with just mine or NatVac's views on things, but rather, make your own!
 
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