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Stealth Difficulty, Damage, and Time

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  06:22:52  20 March 2007
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Expositus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
 

Message edited by:
Expositus
03/20/2007 7:18:01
Messages: 74
Stealth Difficulty, Damage, and Time

Finally got my copy and started playing and noticed right off a couple things with trying to sneak around.

*Some spoilers may be contained below.*

I started a game on veteran difficulty. In the first task the Trader sends you on I told the contact I would handle the situation on my own. Seeing this an great oppertunity to see how well I could sneak around.

So first off I sat around outside the little compound for quite awhile waiting for sunset. Which brings me to my first issue. If you want to mostly only operate in the day or in the night waiting for it with no time advancement is pretty tedious. It took a good bit of time. Which consisted of me basically sitting and doing nothing or going and getting something to eat while I wait for sunset.

So after sunset I crouched down as low I could and headed in. My visibility meter and sound meters where at the bottom and at first everything went well. The first bandit I found I was able to take out with the knife without him ever seeing or hearing me. Which was perfect. Luckily his back was turned and he made no changes in direction.

However I noticed that there was no warning or indication as to how hidden I was. If I was spotted the visibility meter would fly up and they would start shooting. There's no 'you're about to be detected' indication. Sometimes I would be spotted by the same hostile npc that would totally not spot me after a reload. I couldn't tell what I was doing right or what I may have done wrong.

I kept playing and tried to approach any hostiles I could in a stealthy manner. Which was much easier once I got a silenced pistol.

Still half the time I would be spotted in pitch black from a good distance while sometimes I could go right up to an enemy and take them out. Sometimes they would go down with a single shot sometimes they wouldn't.

So I guess my point is there's a lot of guess work in stealth. The visibility meter doesn't account for you to take any preventative measures. If the meter increases you'd best run or start shooting.

While some may say it's realistic that you wouldn't know if you're being seen or not. As is stealth seems barely viable, as a strategy, at best. Unless I'm just doing something horribly wrong.

I'm not sure if there's a way to get better at stealth through suits or whatever later on but from my experiences so far stealth is very situational and most times every fight comes down to an all out shoot out.

Which brings me to my third issue. On veteran difficulty I can take a good few hits. Some hurt more then others. The little damage hits I take I see as 'grazes'. And it feels decently balanced in the amount of damage I can take. On the other hand the amount of shots it takes to kill some of the npcs is a bit annoying at times. Unloading multiple pistol clips on someone or an entire clip of 5.45 ammo on a military npc to kill him is just a bit mind boggling.

I have witnessed a few head shots I think while I was sneaking with the silenced pistol. However after opening up on a npc with half a clip of an AK all landing on the upper body to head area I'm thinking what are these people made of?

So far those are my only gripes I think. The game has huge potential beyond that. Hopefully some stealth improves can be made.


Expositus

PS.

One thing I forgot to mention. If you save your game while crouched with enemies nearby, when reloading you're forced to stand which makes noise and will alert nearby hostiles. Frustrating. So it's all or nothing if you're sneaking through or into a dangerous area of the zone.
  06:29:13  20 March 2007
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Mandala434
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 15
Lol that's nothing compares to the randomness of CS & the like. You should see me getting a nice HS with a scout or even AWP and whoever the guy is still running around like a fresh daisy . It does sounds quirky for a little while but yeah shouldn't pose too much hassle really.
  09:07:44  20 March 2007
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topeira
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 02/28/2007
Messages: 427
everyone agrees that at first it seems like NPCs can take too much punishment.

since i dont have the game myself, yet, i encourage you to think what would happen if NPCs will go down after 4 - 6 chest shots. will this ruin the game? will this make it too easy, even if your own health can only take this much damage? will this game become more stealthy or more frenzic?

i cant answer these questions since i havent played yet, but think about it and let me know your thought.

i really hope a MOD will come by soon that will make bullets seem more.... dangerous.
  09:29:42  20 March 2007
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Expositus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 74

---QUOTATION---
everyone agrees that at first it seems like NPCs can take too much punishment.

since i dont have the game myself, yet, i encourage you to think what would happen if NPCs will go down after 4 - 6 chest shots. will this ruin the game? will this make it too easy, even if your own health can only take this much damage? will this game become more stealthy or more frenzic?

i cant answer these questions since i havent played yet, but think about it and let me know your thought.

i really hope a MOD will come by soon that will make bullets seem more.... dangerous.
---END QUOTATION---



As it is, on veteran difficulty, I certainly have the feeling of danger when in a gun battle. Which happens quite frequently I find my self fighting off six or seven bandits either alone or with some other stalkers.

The 'jacket' protective armor the bandits wear doesnt seem to justify their toughness. Though even on veteran I can single handedly take down quite a good number of bandits with the use of bandages and medkits to keep me up and going. The amount of bandages I use is nearly replinished by the ones I'm able to loot from the dead bandits as the gun battle continues. Though I slowly run out of them and have to head back to the trader.

However the more protective gear the stalkers wear, the green suit, does say it has elements of kevlar and other protections. Also I'm sure the military faction suits are better then those having a lot of kevlar in them. So I can see those npcs types taking more torso hits and continueing to live.

At the least bandits are too hardy I think. They basically wear clothes as armor. Three or four rounds of even the starting pistol to the chest area should kill, if not severaly incapacitate, a bandit. I wouldn't expect small arms to kill military npcs in just three shots however. But AK47 FMJ rounds should at the very least incapacitate them rather quickly.

Also the NPCs are very accurate. They can and will hit you from a good distance. They'll miss some too but you will get hit. And it certainly does hurt when you do. On master difficulty I imagine the vatality facotr for the player is very near reality.

So making human faction NPCs a bit more vulnerable to bullets could go a good ways to making the odds a bit more even and a bit more realistic.

I's also like to see ore npcs getting knocked down but not dead. I've seen a couple and finished them off with a round to the head. If I fire a few rounds into an npc's legs it would be great to see them go down. Not sure if this will be modable but the damage seems to be localised since I believe you can get head shots.

Also I read in the manual it says the visibility meter is an indicator as to how visible you are. Though that is blatently wrong. The indicator never moves until an NPC sees you. It doesnt indicate if you're in broad daylight or pitch dark behind cover. It only goes up once you've been spotted at which point it's entirely too late.
  14:03:25  20 March 2007
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1nisse
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 15
sneaking isnt the best tactic in this game, just get your hands on a submachine gun and play rambo...

Use the always-crunch option and duck even further down to improve accuracy... dont use scope if the targets are WERY far away... just use full auto every time to burst.

Also use the binoculars to spot enemies in the field for greater overview, and in every "team" battle try to flank the enemies...
  14:15:08  20 March 2007
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Aljen
(Senior)
 
On forum: 01/23/2004
Messages: 114

---QUOTATION---
sneaking isnt the best tactic in this game, just get your hands on a submachine gun and play rambo...
---END QUOTATION---



I cant say I am liking that
  16:42:45  20 March 2007
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Expositus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
 

Message edited by:
Expositus
03/20/2007 16:45:17
Messages: 74

---QUOTATION---
sneaking isnt the best tactic in this game, just get your hands on a submachine gun and play rambo...

Use the always-crunch option and duck even further down to improve accuracy... dont use scope if the targets are WERY far away... just use full auto every time to burst.

Also use the binoculars to spot enemies in the field for greater overview, and in every "team" battle try to flank the enemies...
---END QUOTATION---



Somehow I dont think the developers intended this to be the case. Surely they wanted the players to have a broad choice of how they would play the game. Not just run and gun...

If the visibility meter was fixed to show how visible you are instead of rather or not you've been spotted this would go along way to making stealth much more viable.

Also a type of stealth suit or skill would even be a great benefit. I'm not sure if a stealthier outfit is available later in the game yet.
  17:33:32  20 March 2007
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makferson
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 4
If you reload while sneaking (when close to enemy), they will hear (discover) you. Also, different enemy wears different bodysuits, so for some it might take a few hits to kill. That's my guess.
  17:35:56  20 March 2007
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Expositus
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 74

---QUOTATION---
If you reload while sneaking (when close to enemy), they will hear (discover) you. Also, different enemy wears different bodysuits, so for some it might take a few hits to kill. That's my guess.
---END QUOTATION---



Yah this doesnt really bother me. All weapons also make sound to holster and unholster aside from the knife. The sound as far as stealth is concerned is spot on I think.
  18:09:10  20 March 2007
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Dr-k-n
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
 

Message edited by:
Dr-k-n
03/20/2007 18:10:00
Messages: 11
I agree stealth needs some work - *but* later on even the military peeps drop easier.

The weapon you start out with and even some of the others don't have alot of stopping power. Remember its 2012 and body armor has progressed alot since then. The human skull hasnt and even with the starter weapon you can headshot people in one hit.
 
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