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Xray or Source

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  06:47:22  21 March 2007
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stalkerdisapointment
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
stalkerdisapointment
03/21/2007 6:50:01
Messages: 46

---QUOTATION---
Take a look at HalfLife 2 cine mod . . . soure engine is still improving..

Stalekr may look better but runs like crap on a lot of systems so source still wins

OK, having read this, I just HAD to respond.

You've just completely screwed up everything you've just said. Face Factory's mod is NOT an improvement to the Source Engine. It's a crap load of oversized textures, bump and normal maps. It ONLY makes HL2 look better. It does NOT make Source run more efficiently, look better (in any case), or run better on any machine. If anything, it'll drag it down or put a small dent in some systems.

This thread seams to contain alot of misconceptions and generally all a bunch of opinions. Some things do hold true though.

First off, there's no comparison of anything between D3D10 and XRAY running DX9 (or 8 for that matter.) That would be like me comparing my awesome 13" TV in my bedroom to the Mitsu 52" in my living room. D3D10 was built around optimizations. Pretty simple. Watch any of the interviews with the Crytek geniuses and they have side-by-side data of DX9 and DX10.

XRAY, however, has built one hell of a DX9 engine. There's no doubt about that. Source has the same deal going with them. Havoc, bless their souls, has been around for a while, and i've dealt a great deal with the older stuff (working in 3D Max at an ad agency). I've also become familiar with Source, UnrealEngine2, and others (developing mods).

There's really no "this is better than that" in this argument. Grouped engines in a set generation are going to have their pluses and minuses. Source may have HDR, but it's not actual HDR. A little searching, reading and investigation would reveal that it's really not possible to display at all. More of a gimmick than anything. GI would be spectacular, even at the lowest levels (on account of games using generally low-poly content) and settings. Due to the intense nature of hardware consumption used in GI calculations, add-on cards or something would definitely be a necessity to get above 30 FPS on even high-end systems today.

While I haven't exactly got the best system around, i'm pretty positive that STALKER will run just fine to my standards, as I have much more enjoyment modding games than actually playing them. Weird, huh? I'm a tinkerer and like to see the inner workings of things like video game engines, then put them up to the test by adding and modifying here and there. And a quick question for those in the know : Why did HL2 (not really the source engine) need a heavy mod to allow LUA, and STALKER is ready to rock with it? I'm pretty sure that those who know, know that LUA is where it's at, right from the get go as far as mods are concerned. I'd would say, "Same thing with Python" except i always thought python kinda sucked. Just my own opinion though.

All in all, once I have STALKER in my hands (SDK as well) i'm pretty positive that it'll blow Source out of the water. Things can be turned on, turned off, added, removed, modified, and what have you in a matter of seconds, making the game enjoyable in the sense that you think it's enjoyable.

I apologize if I offended, upset, or just pissed off anyone here. I'm not generally an unapproachable person, but I do have a sore spot for people that speak out of context, or out of their asses. I'm not singling anybody out (except the fella that posted that horrible message in which I quoted), but rather making a general statement that some of you guys need to button up if have no frame of reference or believe in poor game reviews for your information (or misinformation).

Once again, I apologize. Excellent forums BTW and I can't wait to play the game and get going on some mods for the community.
---END QUOTATION---


So i posted a horrible message?? Even if i did no need to post a whole freaking paragraph..And I was just trying to show ppl what the source engine could do
also STALKER does run like crap on quite a few systems
  07:25:02  21 March 2007
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ninja90177
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
ninja90177
03/21/2007 7:25:48
Messages: 7
Get out. Fantastic statement there. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I'm no programmer. Purely modeling and animation. That's my thing. LUA, by far, has been the easiest thing for me to pick up. No complaints about C. I just don't bother with it. That's for the REAL programmers.


---QUOTATION---
So i posted a horrible message??
---END QUOTATION---



Absolutely. You worded your statement in a way as to point out that Fake Factory's mod made the Source engine better. It merely uses Source's abilities to handle large texture files. I'm not calling you an idiot. No. Your wording is a bit off is all.

STALKER runs like crap on what kinda systems? I don't have it, but judging by other people's specs close to mine who have played it, they are getting better results than I would have thought. It may only be a DX9 game, but that doesn't mean it'll play on absolutely everything.

Next time, please read the whole thing. I also stated that there was some bad info from other posts in this topic, not just yours. Please, don't take offense either. I didn't mean to upset anyone.
  07:44:00  21 March 2007
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stalkerdisapointment
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
Messages: 46

---QUOTATION---
Get out. Fantastic statement there. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I'm no programmer. Purely modeling and animation. That's my thing. LUA, by far, has been the easiest thing for me to pick up. No complaints about C. I just don't bother with it. That's for the REAL programmers.

So i posted a horrible message??

Absolutely. You worded your statement in a way as to point out that Fake Factory's mod made the Source engine better. It merely uses Source's abilities to handle large texture files. I'm not calling you an idiot. No. Your wording is a bit off is all.

STALKER runs like crap on what kinda systems? I don't have it, but judging by other people's specs close to mine who have played it, they are getting better results than I would have thought. It may only be a DX9 game, but that doesn't mean it'll play on absolutely everything.

Next time, please read the whole thing. I also stated that there was some bad info from other posts in this topic, not just yours. Please, don't take offense either. I didn't mean to upset anyone.
---END QUOTATION---


I didnt say it made the source engine better I was just trying to prove to ppl that source engine isnt crap and what source engine could do
  08:03:24  21 March 2007
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ninja90177
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
Messages: 7
Alright. All I was saying was that it's worded oddly.

I agree, Source isn't crap.
  09:03:27  21 March 2007
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skyway
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
skyway
03/21/2007 9:05:44
Messages: 30
Well as long as we have not seen the abilities of XRay concerning modding... We cannot compare these two. But Source engine modding abilities is very wide.

Graphics - for me Xray is more advanced in it right now, only because of a dynamic soft shadows. Though Source already has depth of field)

However Source does have graphic settings unlike XRay, where half of them is useless and you even cant turn HDR off to make the game run faster on older systems and the only graphic option that really does something significant is a type of lighting...

p.s. and people with X800 videocard (dx9.0b!!!) think that graphics is crap cuz the game forces dx8 mode which actually does not work on dx8 video cards. Odd)
  09:08:31  21 March 2007
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11553
X-ray can do DOF easily. After experimenting with it, GSC found that it makes some players nousious, and decided against using it.
  09:24:57  21 March 2007
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ninja90177
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
Messages: 7

---QUOTATION---
X-ray can do DOF easily. After experimenting with it, GSC found that it makes some players nousious, and decided against using it.
---END QUOTATION---



Can you say how it was used that made them sick? Some things may need a feature like that. I mean, it's not necessary, but it'd be nice to know it's capable if we need to use it at some point.


---QUOTATION---
Graphics - for me Xray is more advanced in it right now, only because of a dynamic soft shadows.
---END QUOTATION---



I agree, well, sorta. I haven't actually "seen" it yet. I have watched a few vids around the net and seen plenty of screen caps. I just wish I had it on my system now Does look pretty amazing though.

Makes me wonder what else there is that we're not aware of. Maybe things that XRAY kicks butt in that aren't in STALKER, but exist within the engine. I understand, though, that putting in too many features will probably bring even a high-end system to it's knees, but still a cool thought to have DOF.
  09:36:19  21 March 2007
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11553

---QUOTATION---
Can you say how it was used that made them sick? Some things may need a feature like that. I mean, it's not necessary, but it'd be nice to know it's capable if we need to use it at some point.
---END QUOTATION---

I don't know the details. The way X-ray renders the scene, perfect per-pixel DOF can be done at little extra cost.
  09:56:39  21 March 2007
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skyway
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
Messages: 30
why not to implement DOF and have a possibility to turn DOF on?
the same with bloom - but GSC did it. Unlike DOF which is a great effect... and strangely... people didnt like it? or GSC was too lazy to program it? each new hi-tech game will have it now. And why not to make it and make a possibility to turn it off?
May be they will in a patch.. though too bad their ltx config file is next to useless... especially when compared to omg oblivion ini (where you can tweak each aspect of almost each effect)...
  17:53:37  22 March 2007
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Serensius
Resident Norwegian
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 03/15/2007
Messages: 399
Is there a command for turning on DoF? If so, it would be cool if anyone could post it here. Maybe someone should make a kind of guide to all the 'hidden' commands out there, too? That'd be sweet for us regular mortals.
 
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