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  04:29:33  18 February 2007
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11553
The last three options make it worse, in my opinion. GI does not work properly, anyway. It is not worth the massive drop in performance.
  05:00:34  18 February 2007
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s9ar10
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/06/2005
Messages: 124
Well I didn't mention not to use them with the default coefficients. Tweak the bloom by making the r2_ls_bloom_threshold .3 to .4

Granted gi does not work well, but I atleast appreciate that they tried to implement it, which is more than you can say for most games. Also tone it down, it is very intense with the default settings. r2_gi_refl should be .75 ish, change r2_gi_photons to 8 it should run smoother, look better.

Yeah, basically forget about allowing r1 lights, it just makes things like campfires put out more light than they need to.
  06:08:53  18 February 2007
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Don Reba
Bishop and Councilor of War
(Moderator)

 

 
On forum: 12/04/2002
Messages: 11553
r2_allow_r1_lights makes GI too intense. They are not meant to work together. GI was an early experiment. It was not tested for a long time. Now it is mostly killed by optimizations.
  01:27:39  20 March 2007
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JoshW
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/20/2007
Messages: 1
Quake 3 was a fantastic engine... But did anyone ever compare SOURCE and Quake 3 ? No, because they are 2 different generations of game engine, so how can you justify comparing crysis/unreal 3/stalker to the last generation source engine? you cant.

At its time of release I firmly believe source was infact the most advanced engine on planet earth. Obviously not the case anymore. However, contrary to a number of opinions in this thread, source does indeed support parallax mapping. Altho it isnt used in any Valve games (yet) it has been coded into the engine and can be easily acitivated for use in a MOD.

In its current state the source engine already supports:

Bump mapping,
Cube and environment mapping (For Reflections),
Dynamic lights, vertex lighting and light maps,
High-Dynamic Range lighting,
Water with refraction and fresnel effects,
Occluder entities for visibility blocking,
Deformable terrain,
3D skyboxes,
Dynamically rendered organics,
Subdivision surfaces,
Diffuse & specular bump maps,
Real-time radiosity lighting,
Layered animation system, constraint systems, ragdoll physics...
Kinematic animated bone followers,
Vehicle Physics,
Advanced Lip-Synch/Facial Animation
And alot more...

However Valve are already Rewritting the engine for the realease of Half-Life Episode 2, using next generation technology. The new Source engine will support Shader Model 3.0/4.0 and DirectX 10 and include support Landscape and Flora Rendering, A Soft-Particle system, Cinematic physics (Deforming objects, Dynamic crumbling of brush geometry, Image-Based Rendering, Self-shadowing, and DYNAMIC SOFT SHADOWS (Any object can cast multiple dynamic soft shadows, Models can self-shadow and cast shadows onto the world and other objects, The player's flashlight casts shadows from models and world geometry).

Clearly valve are working to bring their engine into the next generation, and given past experiences it is unlikely that any other engine will manage to surpass the reliablity and optimisation of source.
  03:08:44  21 March 2007
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stalkerdisapointment
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
Messages: 46
Now that i got stalker.. Ican say that souce is definitely better
I hoep the patch for stalekr optimize the game more..
  03:19:51  21 March 2007
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Sgt.Ciof
lketishcovic <-WTF does that mean?
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 04/08/2005
Messages: 787
Stalker looks way better than source. Source wishes it could pull of the graphics of stalker at maximum
  03:21:49  21 March 2007
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stalkerdisapointment
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
stalkerdisapointment
03/21/2007 3:25:22
Messages: 46

---QUOTATION---
Stalker looks way better than source. Source wishes it could pull of the graphics of stalker at maximum
---END QUOTATION---



Take a look at HalfLife 2 cine mod and tell me if stalker look better
soure engine is still improving..
http://halflife2.filefront.com/file/HalfLife_2_FakeFactorys_Cinematic_Mod_V30;69829= link to mod



Stalekr may look better but runs like crap on a lot of systems so source still wins
  05:38:18  21 March 2007
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skidz
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/15/2007
Messages: 76

---QUOTATION---
Stalker looks way better than source. Source wishes it could pull of the graphics of stalker at maximum
---END QUOTATION---



Stalker (could) look better. The character models in stalker are horrible, but the buildings have a photo realistic appearance. If the engine in Stalker were as Stable and worked as well as HL2 on all Machines, then I would agree. But Stalker is very bugged atm and very few are getting by without massive bugs, crashes, etc...

I run this game on Vista, one of the few that can If I turn on Dynamic lighting the game falls apart. If I run the game with static lighting and everything full in 1280 1024 I get upwards of 150-200 fps. Something is messed up.
  06:14:42  21 March 2007
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ninja90177
(Novice)
 
On forum: 03/21/2007
 

Message edited by:
ninja90177
03/21/2007 6:15:41
Messages: 7

---QUOTATION---
Take a look at HalfLife 2 cine mod . . . soure engine is still improving..

Stalekr may look better but runs like crap on a lot of systems so source still wins
---END QUOTATION---



OK, having read this, I just HAD to respond.

You've just completely screwed up everything you've just said. Face Factory's mod is NOT an improvement to the Source Engine. It's a crap load of oversized textures, bump and normal maps. It ONLY makes HL2 look better. It does NOT make Source run more efficiently, look better (in any case), or run better on any machine. If anything, it'll drag it down or put a small dent in some systems.

This thread seams to contain alot of misconceptions and generally all a bunch of opinions. Some things do hold true though.

First off, there's no comparison of anything between D3D10 and XRAY running DX9 (or 8 for that matter.) That would be like me comparing my awesome 13" TV in my bedroom to the Mitsu 52" in my living room. D3D10 was built around optimizations. Pretty simple. Watch any of the interviews with the Crytek geniuses and they have side-by-side data of DX9 and DX10.

XRAY, however, has built one hell of a DX9 engine. There's no doubt about that. Source has the same deal going with them. Havoc, bless their souls, has been around for a while, and i've dealt a great deal with the older stuff (working in 3D Max at an ad agency). I've also become familiar with Source, UnrealEngine2, and others (developing mods).

There's really no "this is better than that" in this argument. Grouped engines in a set generation are going to have their pluses and minuses. Source may have HDR, but it's not actual HDR. A little searching, reading and investigation would reveal that it's really not possible to display at all. More of a gimmick than anything. GI would be spectacular, even at the lowest levels (on account of games using generally low-poly content) and settings. Due to the intense nature of hardware consumption used in GI calculations, add-on cards or something would definitely be a necessity to get above 30 FPS on even high-end systems today.

While I haven't exactly got the best system around, i'm pretty positive that STALKER will run just fine to my standards, as I have much more enjoyment modding games than actually playing them. Weird, huh? I'm a tinkerer and like to see the inner workings of things like video game engines, then put them up to the test by adding and modifying here and there. And a quick question for those in the know : Why did HL2 (not really the source engine) need a heavy mod to allow LUA, and STALKER is ready to rock with it? I'm pretty sure that those who know, know that LUA is where it's at, right from the get go as far as mods are concerned. I'd would say, "Same thing with Python" except i always thought python kinda sucked. Just my own opinion though.

All in all, once I have STALKER in my hands (SDK as well) i'm pretty positive that it'll blow Source out of the water. Things can be turned on, turned off, added, removed, modified, and what have you in a matter of seconds, making the game enjoyable in the sense that you think it's enjoyable.

I apologize if I offended, upset, or just pissed off anyone here. I'm not generally an unapproachable person, but I do have a sore spot for people that speak out of context, or out of their asses. I'm not singling anybody out (except the fella that posted that horrible message in which I quoted), but rather making a general statement that some of you guys need to button up if have no frame of reference or believe in poor game reviews for your information (or misinformation).

Once again, I apologize. Excellent forums BTW and I can't wait to play the game and get going on some mods for the community.
  06:42:25  21 March 2007
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skidz
(Senior)
 
On forum: 03/15/2007
Messages: 76

---QUOTATION---
Take a look at HalfLife 2 cine mod . . . soure engine is still improving..

Stalekr may look better but runs like crap on a lot of systems so source still wins

OK, having read this, I just HAD to respond.

You've just completely screwed up everything you've just said. Face Factory's mod is NOT an improvement to the Source Engine. It's a crap load of oversized textures, bump and normal maps. It ONLY makes HL2 look better. It does NOT make Source run more efficiently, look better (in any case), or run better on any machine. If anything, it'll drag it down or put a small dent in some systems.

This thread seams to contain alot of misconceptions and generally all a bunch of opinions. Some things do hold true though.

First off, there's no comparison of anything between D3D10 and XRAY running DX9 (or 8 for that matter.) That would be like me comparing my awesome 13" TV in my bedroom to the Mitsu 52" in my living room. D3D10 was built around optimizations. Pretty simple. Watch any of the interviews with the Crytek geniuses and they have side-by-side data of DX9 and DX10.

XRAY, however, has built one hell of a DX9 engine. There's no doubt about that. Source has the same deal going with them. Havoc, bless their souls, has been around for a while, and i've dealt a great deal with the older stuff (working in 3D Max at an ad agency). I've also become familiar with Source, UnrealEngine2, and others (developing mods).

There's really no "this is better than that" in this argument. Grouped engines in a set generation are going to have their pluses and minuses. Source may have HDR, but it's not actual HDR. A little searching, reading and investigation would reveal that it's really not possible to display at all. More of a gimmick than anything. GI would be spectacular, even at the lowest levels (on account of games using generally low-poly content) and settings. Due to the intense nature of hardware consumption used in GI calculations, add-on cards or something would definitely be a necessity to get above 30 FPS on even high-end systems today.

While I haven't exactly got the best system around, i'm pretty positive that STALKER will run just fine to my standards, as I have much more enjoyment modding games than actually playing them. Weird, huh? I'm a tinkerer and like to see the inner workings of things like video game engines, then put them up to the test by adding and modifying here and there. And a quick question for those in the know : Why did HL2 (not really the source engine) need a heavy mod to allow LUA, and STALKER is ready to rock with it? I'm pretty sure that those who know, know that LUA is where it's at, right from the get go as far as mods are concerned. I'd would say, "Same thing with Python" except i always thought python kinda sucked. Just my own opinion though.

All in all, once I have STALKER in my hands (SDK as well) i'm pretty positive that it'll blow Source out of the water. Things can be turned on, turned off, added, removed, modified, and what have you in a matter of seconds, making the game enjoyable in the sense that you think it's enjoyable.

I apologize if I offended, upset, or just pissed off anyone here. I'm not generally an unapproachable person, but I do have a sore spot for people that speak out of context, or out of their asses. I'm not singling anybody out (except the fella that posted that horrible message in which I quoted), but rather making a general statement that some of you guys need to button up if have no frame of reference or believe in poor game reviews for your information (or misinformation).

Once again, I apologize. Excellent forums BTW and I can't wait to play the game and get going on some mods for the community.
---END QUOTATION---



Get out, LUA is not where its at. I hate LUA with a passion, a passion!
C programming is way better, I don't need some crappy scripting language only equipped with what was coded for it. The only reason a company would use a scripting language such as LUA is to make minor changes easier without compiling, and to also keep the beef of the engine compiled and secure from tampering, copying, etc..
Garrys Mod uses LUA yes, but it is no where near as capable as coding the server and client binaries with full access. We have seen this all before with FarCry. They used LUA but in the end nothing good came of it until they released the C source code for us to do some real work.
 
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