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Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

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  09:12:08  16 September 2014
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NatVac
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/15/2007
Messages: 4189
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

There are a lot of new players who try the game and are frustrated that it does not behave like the FPSes they know.

They see a certain apparent behavior and reach conclusions that are not so.

If a player exercises a little patience, some discovery might eventually penetrate through the preconceived notions. Maybe this can help:

>> I emptied a full magazine into him and he just shrugged it off.

Yes. Only the first shot that hits in automatic fire does real damage. The subsequent rapid-fire shots are weakened considerably (see time_to_aim below), probably for extending battles. This makes the enemy seem invulnerable during their hit animations. ZRP has an optional "show damage" mode that you can activate to see this. Shoot him in the torso to stagger him, then shoot a more vulnerable spot like his head. See the ZRP's gamedata\config\creatures\m_stalker.ltx, the [stalker_damage] section for vulnerabilities, and remember that armor modifies these vulnerabilities to make them even tougher.

>> Master makes you more accurate.

No, aiming makes you more accurate. And better weapons are more accurate.

But Master does make the human enemies more accurate in that the odds of their hitting your hitbox are higher, 50 percent in master versus 20 percent in novice, and that is only if they are close enough; their accuracy drops off beyond max_probability_hit_dist (default 10 meters).

And Master does make your shots -- and theirs -- do more damage.

Use single-shot from a distance or from behind cover if you can. Wait a second (this is the default time_to_aim for each weapon) after aiming motionless for best accuracy, and wait a second between shots for the same reason. Move to flank after a few shots if possible; the enemy will focus on your last known position and you can use that to your advantage.

Go for head shots. Heads are weaker in human and mutant enemies. Turn on crosshairs and practice shooting the sides of vehicles so that you can see how the shots land within the inner ends of the crosshairs. Objects are farther away than they appear, so you can get an idea of how accurate your shot will be.

>> Bullets just disappear on novice difficulty.

No bullet just disappears. Early-game pistols do have a 50-meter default range and the sawn-off using buckshot is worse with a reach of only 37 meters (slugs and darts travel farther). Rifles will reach across the maps.

>> He has the same weapon but he always kills me first.

His shooting you is based on the odds he will hit you, and this is partly set by the difficulty you've chosen as mentioned above. But your accuracy is dependent on several factors, one of which is your gun's condition. Another factor is that his "armor" is likely way better than yours in the early game. Be smart and choose your battles.

See http://www.metacognix.com/stlkrsoc/WhatYouKnowThatAintSo.html for details.

And if you really want your FPS, there's a First-Person Shooter configuration you can apply with the ZRP's Modifier.
  08:12:55  18 September 2014
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
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On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 23703
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

I thought the NATO weapons were crap. Now after reading this I
realize I was making them crap by attaching the silencer. The
TRs-301 was a lot more accurate without it. I generally prefer
just the Soviet weapons but I'm using both just so I never have
to buy ammo from anyone. I have yet to buy a single item from
Sidorovich and Barkeep after 6 months in my current game. Sweet.

TS
  12:41:26  18 September 2014
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1092

---QUOTATION---
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

I thought the NATO weapons were crap. Now after reading this I
realize I was making them crap by attaching the silencer. The
TRs-301 was a lot more accurate without it. I generally prefer
just the Soviet weapons but I'm using both just so I never have
to buy ammo from anyone. I have yet to buy a single item from
Sidorovich and Barkeep after 6 months in my current game. Sweet.

TS
---END QUOTATION---



They arent crap. In SoC, NATO weapons are by a VERY large margin better then soviet weapons ...
Fixed in CS and Cop though

@NatVac, mate can you give a link to the newest version of ZRP?
  04:52:07  13 September 2015
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NatVac
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/15/2007
Messages: 4189
>> And Master does make your shots -- and theirs -- do more damage.

Actually, the opposite is true. Master makes shots slightly less damaging in most cases.

I went to change the amount of damage the knife deals when breaking open a crate. On master difficulty you need two primary-fire swings versus only one for novice damage. I saw that the lower-to-higher damage ranking was from master to novice, not the other way around. The hit_power values are the same for wound and wound_2 (primary- and secondary-fire); I don't know if they are added together for secondary fire. I simply tired of needing to use secondary fire to break a crate with one strike.

It's logical that master should be harder. My experience on both novice and master is consistent with this.

On another master-should-be-harder note, I saw on various forum sites that the wrong ideas of "novice makes your bullets disappear" and "master increases the chance your bullets will hit" are still being promoted by unthinking individuals who do not question what their misguided perception tells them. There was even a thread for voting on whether the information presented on the Metacognix site in the link above was true or false.

Consensus does not establish fact. I gave a testable hypothesis and provided the tools to verify the results of my analysis. Few actually read far enough (as Max Chill did) to see how time_to_aim is the reason NPCs seem to be invulnerable during their hit animations as mentioned above -- they aren't; it just seems that way because the game weakens each subsequent shot to the same "bone" until time_to_aim has passed before the next shot.

I recently uploaded a file that sets time_to_aim to zero for weapons that have that setting. It's for those impatient players who want the bullet-sponge effect to go away completely. It's a small database file with a drag-n-drop install for NA/WW players. (CIS players will need to extract the files, but if they have to do that, they can just extract the weapons directory from the vanilla gamedata.dbb archive and change time_to_aim in the files that have it.)

It's available from the page linked in my first post above. If you don't see it right away, keep reading.

Modded versions of the weapons will override the ones in the mini-mod. If so, you can change those files yourself. Read the instructions in the package.

The other information at the link above still applies: Aim, go for headshots, consider the contributions to accuracy by weapon type, weapon condition and player stance, be aware mutants are mostly empty space. Again: go for the headshots. And don't use the early-game weapons (pistols/sawn-off) for distance shots. Headshots, even if your weapon is not accurate but you have enough ammo to try. Finally, location, location, location (i.e., headshots).

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>> @NatVac, mate can you give a link to the newest version of ZRP?

Visit the ZRP thread in the Mod Discussion section, Charcharo. The latest ZRP is the first one listed on the download page at the website linked in the thread's last few pages; the file will always have the most recent date on it. Currently that is 1.07 R5 RC (release candidate). Look at my first post on this page for ZRP details and other important info:

---QUOTATION---
"ZRP - A joint effort in fixing S.T.A.L.K.E.R.", page 329:
http://www.gsc-game.com/main.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_id=11786&page=329&sec_id=16
---END QUOTATION---

  10:14:29  13 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
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On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/13/2015 10:15:57
Messages: 23703
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

NatVac~

If you had waited 6 more days it would have been exactly one year
between the last post made on this thread and your new one today.

I've never understood the complaints about bullet sponges that I read
about here and other places. I've never had the problem which I always
attributed to people shooting a pistol wildly from a distance at a target and
not hitting anything ( wild shots going everywhere but hitting the person )
or someone foolishly using auto-fire from a distance which we all know
after the first shot is very inaccurate. I use single shots with a rifle with
a scope and I usually do them as fast as I can. I have no trouble hitting
my targets and bringing them down. Likewise in closer range especially
indoors or urban settings I'll use a Viper or AKS-74U on auto fire and it
drops the men or mutants quickly and effectively. I understand what you
are saying and I have no problem with it. I just don't get the complaints.

TS
  23:07:25  13 September 2015
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Max Chill
Super Murderhobo
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On forum: 04/28/2014
Messages: 641
Well, some folks out there would rather complain about perceived problems instead of trying to fix them. Others like us prefer solutions, and we're lucky to have NatVac's descriptions to shed light on parts of the game that could only be understood by those who delve into its inner workings. I've certainly picked up more about SoC by reading NatVac's site and posts here than I ever could have through merely "Playing the Game". And the new mini-mod sounds really cool and I look forward to trying it out after I finish my current playthrough, though I suspect that it might make the game too easy for me after my having so fully acclimated to mitigating the time_to_aim quirk.

One major advantage that I've discovered through adapting my behavior to the Guns info from the Metacognix site is that I expend very little ammo during firefights, and as a result my weapons wear out at a decreased rate. This is especially useful in the vanilla game due to the lack of weapon repair, and has enabled me to stockpile huge quantities of guns and ammo in a short time with very little effort. I've also recently found that carrying only three extra magazines-worth of rifle rounds along with forty shotshells is more than enough to keep me alive through any part of the game south of the Red Forest, which has drastically reduced my general carry-weight. As a player who's perhaps a bit obsessed with maximizing efficiency this has greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the game.
  23:24:27  13 September 2015
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RK Roadkill
Merc
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/27/2011
Messages: 1273
Thats why I love stalker, player is not superior to all. I don't mind bullet sponges and it's refreshing to be on same "level" as enemies.
  02:40:33  14 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
 

Message edited by:
Tejas Stalker
09/14/2015 2:40:47
Messages: 23703
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

I always appreciate anything from NatVac and have learned a great deal
from him. However my playing style that has evolved over time has me
playing longer games where I have never had a shortage of weapons or
ammo. In my current game I have managed after 11 months to never
have purchased ANY item from Sidorovich or Barkeep. Only my love
for the Chaser-13 ( lighter & more damage than the SPSA-14 ) has
led me to purchase them from Sakharov. If you do choose to use
a SVD or SVU you have to purchase the ammo from Skinflint or
Colonel Petrenko. If you want to use a Vintar or other PAB-9
type weapons, unless you purchase it the only free source
is as a reward from General Voronin. Basically a quick
fast game would lead you to conserve and worry
more about all of this mentioned. While I do
watch my weight I like to carry about 350
rounds for my Soviet or NATO rifle.

TS
  22:16:19  15 September 2015
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Tejas Stalker
Official Stalker on Facebook
(Resident)

 

 
On forum: 05/12/2007
Messages: 23703
Vanilla Bullet Sponges? Well, Yes and No

Okay everyone. Let's all meet back here one year from now when NatVac returns.

TS
  23:50:04  15 September 2015
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Charcharo
Senior Resident
 

 
On forum: 06/23/2009
Messages: 1092
He is mysterious this way
 
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